# The Killing -- new series on AMC **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 31, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691 "2011-03-31T22:16:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/342 "2011-06-20T22:28:41Z")
> [@Tarwater](#): > > It didn’t make sense on multiple levels. I mean, what bothers me most is that the writers gave no indication that Holder was anything but forthright with the investigation. He may have been a little skeevy, but for the entire series, it was plain to the audience that he was working in earnest to solve the case. There’s just no indication that he was a duplicitous person, at all. > > For me, the most glaring mistake the writers made with Holder happened in the penultimate episode. One of the Beau Soleil women asked to meet him down by the dock, where presumably she was going to reveal something damning about the still-mysterious Orpheus. Holder is standing in a phonebooth when he looks over and notices a campaign poster for Richmond. You can see him put two and two together. If he was planning on casting suspicion on Richmond anyway, why the hell does he seem surprised? > > Not only that, by why the fuck is he enthusiastically following all of the red herrings? Like The Cage? The butcher shop? Rosie was found in Richmond’s campaign car, so it shouldn’t have been difficult to nudge the investigation in that direction, if setting up Richmond was his goal all along. It’s almost as if the writers decided at the very last moment to make him a double-agent, ignoring everything they had previously written about him. Well it makes sense from a motivation standpoint if you assume it wasn’t some grand conspiracy that had been on-going and that Holder’s motivations are simply an ill advised need to wrap up this case at all costs. One would assume that Holder is convinced of the guy’s guilt and is worried that he’s going to get elected and be able to avoid any prosecution and/or arrest indefinitely once he’s in a position of such authority. Therefore, in a quick ill-advised moment of weakness he manufactures evidence that he assumes will be similar to what they’d find in due course. He’s not a big baddie, he’s just a stupid cop who thinks the ends justify the means. Of course that someone else is in on the deception throws a monkey wrench in that logical conclusion. Presumably the guy in the car with him is either the techie who faked the photo and therefore no more of a conspirator than Holder is, he’s just a guy who was looking for a paycheck or has a grudge against Richmond. The alternative is that he’s some big power broker who had been operating against Richmond all along, the mayor, the senator, the billionaire, one of the campaign advisers and he manipulated Holder in his moment of weakness. If this power broker and Holder were in on this together from the get-go then the show REALLY is fucking stupid like you note. > [@HenryGale](#): > > I guess it’s because I didn’t expect the Larson murder to be solved in this episode. Is that what everyone else expected? How, then, would the show solve all of the loose ends regarding the characters around the investigation? Mitch leaving the family, Stan’s trial, beardy moving company employee’s craziness, the millionaire’s deal with the councilman, etc. What reason is there to keep coming back to these characters when we’ve moved on to a new, presumably unrelated investigation? I thought, after watching the penultimate episode, there clearly was not enough time to wrap up the story in one more sitting. I didn’t realize anyone felt differently. They didn’t need to tie up every loose end to reveal the killer the way the _advertising said they would_. They could have had a season 2 exploring the fallout from the reveal of the killer and the fallout from the investigation. They could have had a season 2 about a secondary crime that led to Rosie’s killing, essentially creating a new case to follow next season that builds on a larger conspiracy. Here’s how the ending should have played out and where the storylines end up. 1. Reveal the killer. It doesn’t matter who it is or if they are killed/caught in the finale. That’s what Season 2 is for. The reveal of the killer could open up a new line of investigation surrounding a conspiracy or some crazy underground syndicate. Or it could have just been a crime of passion with no additional fallout and the show moves on to another topic. It’s not important, but paying off the promise of the marketing is critical. 2. Mitch (I thought her name as Midge all season long!) runs away and is simply gone. No need to wrap that up, that’s just one of the many terrible side effects of the murder. Just like the teacher’s beating and coma. 3. Stan’s trial doesn’t need to be wrapped up. He confessed, he’ll defend his case and the basis of temporary insanity and they’ll argue about how much punishment he gets, but it’s incidental. It’s another bad thing that happened to this family, the severity of the sentence isn’t really important. 4. Beardy’s craziness is a fundamental part of the finale and they needed to show it. They could have had him shoot Richmond or get stopped at the last minute, it doesn’t really matter. His story line is wrapped up one way or another, the Larsen family is destroyed and he seeks revenge. Either way he goes to jail or dies and that’s that. 5. The millionaire’s deal is moot if Richmond is dead and/or his campaign is ruined. No need to wrap that up. Yes he’s creepy and potentially a killer, but if they reveal who the killer is like they are supposed to there’s nothing left of his story to tie up. Either way his $5M is wasted because Richmond is cooked, guilty or innocent and his grand plan of having the mayor under his thumb is moot. All these things are reasonable ways to end the show and none of them would have precluded them revealing the killer. There’s still plenty of meat left on the bones for season 2 if they choose, but there’s closure there. We were TOLD to expect a reveal of the killer, therefore we expected it. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/343 "2011-06-20T22:32:42Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > Unless I’m being whooshed, that link takes me straight to his article about the show, which actually sums up how I feel pretty well. [Here](http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6680958/hackery-first-degree) it is again. I don’t feel awkward agreeing with 90% of his comments! We ought to invite him here to exchange a few fine points with us and see if we can’t come to a consensus that _The Killing_ may not be ready for prime time. ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/344 "2011-06-20T23:33:54Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > Just for info’s sake, did the Danish version traffic in this level of “the audience is stupid, let’s yank their chain” shenanigans? You find out who the killer is in the Danish version, if that’s what you mean. I’ve just found that [Wikipedia has a listing of the AMC episodes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Killing_episodes). Unfortunately the summaries given are obviously the incomplete things that get printed in listings magazines, etc. However, it looks to me that in fact Season 1 maybe relates to only the first half of the Danish original? [Wikipedia’s article on the US series](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Killing_%28U.S._TV_series%29) summarises the plot as a whole as follows: > [@](#): > > Set in Seattle, Washington, the series follows the police investigation of Rosie Larsen’s murder. Each episode follows one day in the investigation. She was drowned in the trunk of a submerged car that belonged to the mayoral campaign of Darren Richmond. Detective Sarah Linden is assigned the case just before she is to relocate to Sonoma, California. She partners with a new detective Stephen Holder, and as the case becomes more complex, she continually puts off her relocation. So far, so good. > [@](#): > > Richmond is dismissed as a suspect because he has an alibi. The evidence eventually leads the detectives to Rosie’s teacher, Bennet Ahmed. When the police are unable to close the case against Ahmed, Rosie’s mother goads her husband into exacting revenge. Rosie’s father beats Ahmed into a coma. When he discovers that Ahmed is in fact innocent, he turns himself in to the police. Here we start to get differences, although the only one that may be substantive is that in the original the mother has absolutely no involvement with what happens to the teacher. > [@](#): > > As the series winds down, the detectives discover that Rosie was working as a prostitute, and they track down a dangerous john who used her escort service and intimidated another girl. Eventually, they discover that the john is actually Richmond. The detectives gather evidence to build the case against him, and the series ends with his arrest and Linden finally getting on the plane to California. As she prepares for takeoff, she gets a call that informs her that Holder had fabricated the key piece of evidence against Richmond. While Richmond is getting into a police car, Belko arrives and pulls a gun and is about to shoot Richmond when the screen goes black, leaving Richmond’s final fate unknown. Here’s where things diverge considerably from the original. Anyway, I would definitely recommend the Danish series 1. The original is much more of a slow-burn thriller than a whodunnit. ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/345 "2011-06-21T00:43:28Z")
I think Rosie was going to use the money to give to her mother. The scene with Mitch and her father - looking thru the scrapbook of places she wanted to go and never went. I think when Rosie saw that, she felt like Mitch never got a chance at life, so she wanted to get her the money to go to those places. I don’t think Holder was working with anyone to try and frame Richmond. I think Holder was convinced that Richmond was guilty, and did this on his own to make sure Richmond goes down. I knew something was up when Sarah left the police station and the camera focused on Holder’s face. His reaction said that he was up to something. He might’ve been planning this for awhile. While they were tracing Richmond’s steps - Holder comes up with the gas station not on their route and says, “Trust me Linden…I _got_ this…” And we still haven’t found out who the other man was in Stan’s dream. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/346 "2011-06-21T00:57:34Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > Unless I’m being whooshed, that link takes me straight to his article about the show, which actually sums up how I feel pretty well. [Here](http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6680958/hackery-first-degree) it is again. It appears there are issues with the site: his tweets [here](http://twitter.com/#!/sportsguy33). I can’t get the page to load properly with Opera, Chrome, Firefox or IE. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/347 "2011-06-21T01:05:41Z")
Let’s see … “journey not destination”, check. “Don’t need to be spoonfed”, check. “If it got such a reaction, it must be doing _something_ right”, check. All I need are “it’s really about the characters”, and “some people just like to complain” and I’ll have an Excuses for Shitty Television Bingo! (Do we allow “postage stamps”? Because then all I need is, “you just didn’t _get_ it”.) ---
**Author:** ![kapri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@kapri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kapri)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/348 "2011-06-21T03:26:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > [Showrunner](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Showrunner) > > Basically, a showrunner is the person who is the “boss” of a given TV show, and who manages the creative direction and day to day operations. Sometimes, but not always, this person has the title of “executive producer,” and sometimes, but not always, this person is also the creator or head writer of a show. Sud was the showrunner on _Cold case_, and is nominally the “creator” of _The Killing_. Oh. I’ve never heard the phrase “showrunner” before, and I’ve been watching TV for 50+ years. Huh. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/349 "2011-06-21T03:29:19Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > (Do we allow “postage stamps”? Because then all I need is, “you just didn’t _get_ it”.) I think that would be four corners, not postage stamps. I was listening to Alan Sepinwall’s podcast this evening to get his opinions on the two big finales last night and I found myself getting really frustrated with his co-host. His co-host was trying to tepidly defend the finale. He agreed the show sucked donkey dick, but he thought the viewers had an unreasonable expectation of getting an answer to the big question. He argued, stupidly in my opinion, that AMC never claimed that we’d get an answer explicitly. He cited all the press releases and all the reviewers packets they received as never explicitly saying anything one way or another. My problem with this is that no one in the general audience ever sees any of that stuff. All we see are the TV ads, radio ads and print ads. Those pretty much exclusively centered around the message “Who Killed Rosie Larsen?”, which strongly implies that by watching you’ll get an answer. Press releases and insider interviews/reviews don’t mean shit to the general public. Had AMC taken the time to explicitly warn people that we may or may not get an answer, then the reaction might have been different. Instead they chased the dollars and used the slimy, misleading advertising in order suck people in. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/350 "2011-06-21T05:01:19Z")
I don’t care that we didn’t find out who killed Rosie Larsen. What I care about is that this show is unfailingly stupid in every possible way. Let’s be honest: even if they had played it straight and done a conventional wrap-up, it wouldn’t have made the previous twelve episodes suck less. Sure, it was shit frosting, but the cake was already made out of shit. My theory is that they know the show sucks, the writers moronic, etc. and said, “How can we get people talking about this show that has put most of the audience to sleep? Let’s leave 'em hanging and introduce a whole bunch of nonsensical plot points!” And God bless 'em, it almost worked. Hell, even though it was stupid, it was the only thing remotely interesting that’s happened on this show in weeks. If they could have made episodes 1-12 this unconventional, it might not have been such a mediocre snooze-fest. I will not be back next year unless they fire their entire roster of writers. But I might pop in the thread to silently laugh at those who do. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/351 "2011-06-21T05:14:14Z")
Just continuing my decompressing after watching the finale on my TiVo: Setting aside the fact that only two detectives have been assigned to the most prominent murder case in a major American city, setting aside that one detective has zero murder experience and is in fact a junkie, and the other detective is close enough to quitting that she’s gone to the airport multiple times, have there ever been two less competent or less likable detectives depicted on television? The Stooges don’t count; they were a trio. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/352 "2011-06-21T05:26:07Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Let’s be honest: even if they had played it straight and done a conventional wrap-up, it wouldn’t have made the previous twelve episodes suck less. Sure, it was shit frosting, but the cake was already made out of shit. I disagree. A satisfying finale, even if it had been somewhat predictable, would have at least left viewers feeling like they weren’t given the middle finger. There’s a lot of garbage on TV and people watch it. They don’t kid themselves that it’s great, but it kills the time and gives them an excuse to do something on a weeknight. The Killing wasn’t ever going to be _The Wire_, we learned that 2 episodes in. But it could have been inoffensively bland like any of the other 25 police procedurals on TV with better cinematography. A TV show being shit doesn’t make it unwatchable. A TV show that’s shit that thinks it’s pudding and tells you to go fuck yourself for disagreeing however is inexcusable. > [@](#): > > My theory is that they know the show sucks, the writers moronic, etc. and said, “How can we get people talking about this show that has put most of the audience to sleep? Let’s leave 'em hanging and introduce a whole bunch of nonsensical plot points!” No, the show was almost entirely filmed before a single episode was aired. They couldn’t and didn’t make any adjustments to the show as audience reaction poured in. The showrunner was interviewed often and almost always came across as arrogant and blindingly certain that the product was epic and revolutionary. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/353 "2011-06-21T05:49:41Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > No, the show was almost entirely filmed before a single episode was aired. They couldn’t and didn’t make any adjustments to the show as audience reaction poured in. The showrunner was interviewed often and almost always came across as arrogant and blindingly certain that the product was epic and revolutionary. Well, isn’t that special? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/354 "2011-06-21T19:36:13Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > Unless I’m being whooshed, that link takes me straight to his article about the show, which actually sums up how I feel pretty well. [Here](http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6680958/hackery-first-degree) it is again. Well shoot. It works now, but it didn’t before. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![HenryGale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b782af/32.png) [@HenryGale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HenryGale)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/355 "2011-06-21T20:08:10Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > They didn’t need to tie up every loose end to reveal the killer the way the _advertising said they would_. Ahh, ok, this is what I missed, then. I don’t really watch any ads or previews. Anyone have a youtube link for one of the misleading commercials? ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/356 "2011-06-21T20:12:08Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > Did the writer of the NY Times article linked on that page turn off the show before the end? How could she be so utterly \*wrong \*about what happened? 😕 :dubious: Hmmm… It seems pretty clear from the [NYTimes article](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/20/arts/television/the-killing-on-amc-solves-murder-in-season-finale.html?_r=2) that the producers did in fact shoot a straight-forward Richmond Is The Killer version of the finale and distributed it to some television critics. They must have added the scenes with Holder faking the evidence AFTER the show got picked up for season 2. Either that or the Times critic watched it with the sound off and while also listening to a ball game and having sex (which is really the only way anyone should watch it). ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/357 "2011-06-21T20:18:33Z")
> [@HenryGale](#): > > Ahh, ok, this is what I missed, then. I don’t really watch any ads or previews. Anyone have a youtube link for one of the misleading commercials? Here’s a sample of one of the print ads used in this new article. > **['The Killing’s’ dead girl: The actress who plays Rosie Larsen talks about her...](https://www.latimes.com/archives/blogs/show-tracker/story/2011-06-15/the-killings-dead-girl-the-actress-who-plays-rosie-larsen-talks-about-her-murder-and-more)** > > This article was originally on a blog post platform and may be missing photos, graphics or links. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/358 "2011-06-21T20:26:20Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Let’s see … “journey not destination”, check. > “Don’t need to be spoonfed”, check. > “If it got such a reaction, it must be doing _something_ right”, check. > > All I need are “it’s really about the characters”, and “some people just like to complain” and I’ll have an Excuses for Shitty Television Bingo! I apologize for intruding on the hatefest with a differing opinion. Silly me for thinking anybody would be interested in knowing why I (and, I’m sure ,at least a few other viewers) enjoyed the show. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/359 "2011-06-21T20:43:08Z")
Actually, I’m sort of irritated and fascinated by it at the same time. I can’t quite put my finger on why. I think I started watching to see how heavily it would be influenced by Twin Peaks. There are some definite influences. Whether the American authors were influenced by it directly, or indirectly through the Danish authors I can’t say. Beyond that, I think I kept watching because I’ve been curious every week about what kind of red herrings the authors will throw at us next and how they’ll then explain away the evidence the following week. I guess I find it interesting in a sort of meta way - watching the process and wondering what the writers are going to try to get away with next. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/360 "2011-06-21T22:06:18Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Here’s a sample of one of the print ads used in this new article. > > ['The Killing’s’ dead girl: The actress who plays Rosie Larsen talks about her murder and more](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2011/06/the-killings-dead-girl-speaks-the-actress-who-plays-rosie-larsen-talks-her-grisly-murder-and-more.html) And even in that article they say the killer will be revealed in the finale. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691/361 "2011-06-21T23:05:17Z")
The first season of _Damages_ had some red herrings/fakeouts too, and a structure that made it difficult for anyone who wanted to figure out what really happened. But that show also had some interesting characters, and when you got to the end, you didn’t feel like you’d been lied to all along. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-killing-new-series-on-amc/576691.md?page=19)