# The kinda bullshit we deal with, or love your computer tech. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 8, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017 "2010-09-08T04:06:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/21 "2010-09-08T18:26:22Z")
> [@elninost0rm](#): > > I’d think one somewhat intelligent customer would notice and report you. Really? Imagine you’re a customer, and the computer tech is at your house trying to fix your laptop. You don’t have an internet connection. Here’s the choice the tech gives you: “In order to fix your computer, i need to download some drivers and other files. For this, i need an internet connection. One of your neighbors has an unsecured wireless connection that i can use. It’s officially illegal, but i’m not going to hack into his account or anything; i just need few megabytes worth of stuff. Otherwise, i have to take your computer with me and do all of this back at my workshop, which means that, instead of getting the computer back in an hour or so, you’ll have to wait until at least tomorrow, and possibly a couple of days.” What percentage of the OP’s customers do you think would choose the second option in this case? Would it be greater than 2 percent, do you think? ---
**Author:** ![elninost0rm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@elninost0rm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elninost0rm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/22 "2010-09-08T18:26:45Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > > [@elninost0rm](#): > > > > Oh no doubt about that one. There are plenty of people that think wireless hotspots (with names like “Smith Family”) are provided by the state or something. Truly amazing. > > > > I’m just interested in how it’s a resort at all for you. I’m not some prude here. I’ve done it, sure, but I don’t do it while fixing a customer’s computer. I’d think one somewhat intelligent customer would notice and report you. > > An intelligent customer likely (but not absolutely) already has WiFi Not necessarily. I have built PCs from the ground up. I have troubleshooted more problems than I care to mention. I have fixed PCs for other people on numerous occasions. I’ve even been paid for my services (not as any sort of business or anything, though). I’m definitely relatively savvy, and I still use wired connections to this day. I simply do not trust the signal strength of WiFi. Some people swear by it, but I don’t mind a few LAN cables strewn about if it means I’ll have solid, uninterrupted transmission. This would mean, of course, that they’d have a wired connection for you to use. I’ll give you that, but don’t dispel someone as being an idiot simply because they don’t have internet access. Plenty of people are on a tight budget. ---
**Author:** ![elninost0rm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@elninost0rm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elninost0rm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/23 "2010-09-08T18:28:07Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > > [@elninost0rm](#): > > > > I’d think one somewhat intelligent customer would notice and report you. > > Really? > > Imagine you’re a customer, and the computer tech is at your house trying to fix your laptop. You don’t have an internet connection. Here’s the choice the tech gives you: > > “In order to fix your computer, i need to download some drivers and other files. For this, i need an internet connection. One of your neighbors has an unsecured wireless connection that i can use. It’s officially illegal, but i’m not going to hack into his account or anything; i just need few megabytes worth of stuff. Otherwise, i have to take your computer with me and do all of this back at my workshop, which means that, instead of getting the computer back in an hour or so, you’ll have to wait until at least tomorrow, and possibly a couple of days.” > > What percentage of the OP’s customers do you think would choose the second option in this case? Would it be greater than 2 percent, do you think? Obviously a VAST majority of customers would not choose this route. They would not give two shits if the guy subsequently stole all the passwords/vital information from a neighbor, so long as the PC gets fixed. A bit of a stretch for exaggerating purposes but I absolutely agree with you. All it would take is that 2% (or hell, we’ll say .05%) to notice and get reported. Even then, most bosses/companies would not be likely to do anything about it, but that in no way makes it any more ethical. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/24 "2010-09-08T18:28:11Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > An intelligent customer likely (but not absolutely) already has WiFi I’m not sure there’s any correlation between wi-fi and intelligence. My mother’s a pretty intelligent person, and she doesn’t have wi-fi because her computer sits permanently on a desk in her spare bedroom, and she has no need to be connected to the internet from other parts of the house. ---
**Author:** ![elninost0rm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@elninost0rm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elninost0rm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/25 "2010-09-08T18:34:59Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > > [@DirkGntly](#): > > > > An intelligent customer likely (but not absolutely) already has WiFi > > I’m not sure there’s any correlation between wi-fi and intelligence. My mother’s a pretty intelligent person, and she doesn’t have wi-fi because her computer sits permanently on a desk in her spare bedroom, and she has no need to be connected to the internet from other parts of the house. “Not absolutely” was a decent catch-all, but I still don’t see the connection at all. You can’t speak on odds alone when all it takes is one disgruntled guy that has a strong desire to piss in your Cheerios. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/26 "2010-09-08T18:36:04Z")
It sounds like the company should get a portable 3g hotspot, like Verizon’s Mifi, for on-the-spot downloads. Or if you bought one yourself, drachilix, you could presumably write it off on your taxes as a legit business expense. I agree though, I think you’re underpaid. I wonder if it was even his laptop? How was he getting his limewire downloads without internet? Have you ever had people bring you stuff you know was stolen? ---
**Author:** ![elninost0rm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@elninost0rm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elninost0rm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/27 "2010-09-08T18:37:16Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > It sounds like the company should get a portable 3g hotspot, like Verizon’s Mifi, for on-the-spot downloads. Or if you bought one yourself, drachilix, you could presumably write it off on your taxes as a legit business expense. > > I agree though, I think you’re underpaid. I wonder if it was even his laptop? How was he getting his limewire downloads without internet? > > Have you ever had people bring you stuff you know was stolen? How do those wireless modems work? I’m very familiar with WiFi/etc., but I haven’t dabbled in those new wireless modems at all. I’m not sure if it’s based on an account localized to a certain PC, but it’d certainly be a smart idea. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/28 "2010-09-08T18:40:28Z")
> [@elninost0rm](#): > > I’d think one somewhat intelligent customer would notice and report you. To whom? The internet police? ---
**Author:** ![elninost0rm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ed655f/32.png) [@elninost0rm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elninost0rm)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/29 "2010-09-08T18:42:05Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > [@elninost0rm](#): > > > > I’d think one somewhat intelligent customer would notice and report you. > > To whom? The internet police? I’m sure that there are outlets for cyber crimes or other related incidents (no matter how small). That was sort of a cop-out. I’m not some guy pushing anti-theft of Mr. Smith’s WiFi. I’m just suggesting that doing it on the job is probably not smart. /shrug ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/30 "2010-09-08T19:28:29Z")
When I opened this thread I thought it would be just another clueless luser story. It far exceeded my expectations. **drachillix** , if you want to get a free T-shirt out of this, write it up and send it to [The Shark Tank](http://blogs.computerworld.com/sharky) at computerworld.com.They’d use it. And, unlike your customer, they do pay up. I have a shirt from them, and my story was nowhere as interesting as yours. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/31 "2010-09-08T19:37:54Z")
We’ve had several long threads about the legality of stealing unsecured wi-fi. The upshot appears to be that while it’s technically illegal, nobody has actually been prosecuted for it (though several people have been prosecuted for doing illegal things _while_ accessing somebody else’s network). ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/32 "2010-09-08T19:57:30Z")
> [@elninost0rm](#): > > All it would take is that 2% (or hell, we’ll say .05%) to notice and get reported. Even then, most bosses/companies would not be likely to do anything about it, but that in no way makes it any more ethical. But, for me, the ethical question is a different issue from the legal question. I understand, i guess, why lawmakers saw fit to make it illegal to use an unsecured wireless network belonging to someone else. To tell you the truth, though, i think that the ease of securing a network, especially with modern WPA-enabled routers, makes such a law rather pointless. If you buy a router, you should secure your own network if you don’t want people on it. Also, as long as they’re not actually trying to hack into my computer or constantly using huge amounts of bandwidth, i wouldn’t really have any problem with someone piggybacking on my wireless connection to check their email or download a few small files. I don’t really consider such limited use to be unethical. Apart from security, the main reason that i keep our wireless network protected is that some people are greedy. Rather than simply using open networks for quick browsing or checking email, they’ll do stuff like run BitTorrent clients or stream movies, which uses up lots of bandwidth and degrades my own internet experience. I was staying at the apartment of some friends in New York a couple of years back, and i noticed that their wireless router was not protected, and that other people were leeching off their connection. I asked them about it, and they said that they actually kept it open on purpose, in the spirit of sharing. I really liked that idea, and their public-spiritedness, but i felt obligated to tell them that they were running a security risk. Also, and almost as importantly, it was clear that the presence of multiple piggybackers was significantly slowing the speed for the connection’s owner, and this was because at least one of the freeloaders was constantly running torrents. So i set up a password and locked everyone else out. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/33 "2010-09-08T20:19:54Z")
You know if Mr Smith really didn’t want anyone using his wifi he could spend exactly 5 minutes setting a password, or MAC filtering. If it’s DHCP serves you connection data it looks to me like an invitation. YMM ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/34 "2010-09-08T21:12:38Z")
> [@elninost0rm](#): > > > [@Merneith](#): > > > > It sounds like the company should get a portable 3g hotspot, like Verizon’s Mifi, for on-the-spot downloads. Or if you bought one yourself, drachilix, you could presumably write it off on your taxes as a legit business expense. > > > > I agree though, I think you’re underpaid. I wonder if it was even his laptop? How was he getting his limewire downloads without internet? > > > > Have you ever had people bring you stuff you know was stolen? > > How do those wireless modems work? I’m very familiar with WiFi/etc., but I haven’t dabbled in those new wireless modems at all. > > I’m not sure if it’s based on an account localized to a certain PC, but it’d certainly be a smart idea. We have a wireless USB cellular gadget (mobile broadband from Virgin Mobile). I could have spent another 50 bucks to get one that acted as a WiFi router for several devices but figured I didn’t need it. Anyway - basically, they are just like a home Wi Fi router except that rather than being connected to your FIOS / cable modem / DSL modem, they use the cellular network. **drachillix** , I assume you carry a laptop of some sort when going on these calls. I would suggest you acquire such a cellular gadget. Mine requires a 10-20 dollar top off card, then that buys me some amount of total download volume (increases the more you top off at once). If I don’t need it, I don’t top it off. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/35 "2010-09-08T21:14:42Z")
> [@elninost0rm](#): > > > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > > To whom? The internet police? > > I’m sure that there are outlets for cyber crimes or other related incidents (no matter how small). > > That was sort of a cop-out. > > I’m not some guy pushing anti-theft of Mr. Smith’s WiFi. I’m just suggesting that doing it on the job is probably not smart. /shrug What’s the difference between him doing it and you doing so - as you admitted you’ve used someone else’s connection in the past? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/36 "2010-09-08T21:28:47Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Yup and it would be my last resort, I have actually run across customers who connected to a neighbors unsecured internet and honestly didnt realize wireless internet service was not a built in free service. Cite that it isn’t, especially local to you as I am not that far away. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/37 "2010-09-08T21:57:32Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > . . . Apart from security, the main reason that i keep our wireless network protected is that some people are greedy. Rather than simply using open networks for quick browsing or checking email, they’ll do stuff like run BitTorrent clients or stream movies, which uses up lots of bandwidth and degrades my own internet experience. . . My son kept his wifi open until the day that he found that one of his neighbors had somehow tweaked his (the son’s) router to recognize his (the neighbor’s) signal as five devices, hogging the bandwidth in a big way. I don’t know which was the bigger offense: the sheer nerve of doing that or the fact that it messed with the WOW. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/38 "2010-09-08T22:24:15Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > > [@mhendo](#): > > > > . . . Apart from security, the main reason that i keep our wireless network protected is that some people are greedy. Rather than simply using open networks for quick browsing or checking email, they’ll do stuff like run BitTorrent clients or stream movies, which uses up lots of bandwidth and degrades my own internet experience. . . > > My son kept his wifi open until the day that he found that one of his neighbors had somehow tweaked his (the son’s) router to recognize his (the neighbor’s) signal as five devices, hogging the bandwidth in a big way. I don’t know which was the bigger offense: the sheer nerve of doing that or the fact that it messed with the WOW. It might of actually been five devices running. Either all the devices had wifi, or they did something like set one of them to be a bridge to their own lan. Your son would see 5 devices because the neighbors lan and his wifi network would be functionally one network, for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/39 "2010-09-08T23:00:46Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > > [@drachillix](#): > > > > Yup and it would be my last resort, I have actually run across customers who connected to a neighbors unsecured internet and honestly didnt realize wireless internet service was not a built in free service. > > Cite that it isn’t, especially local to you as I am not that far away. Thank you! Areas of Clovis, CA do have free public WiFi but in the cases I had seen, people were connected to a neighbor, internet went down, called us, we go out to fix. No router, no modem, no internet service. They showed me how they connected. It had been to a neighbor who recently secured his network. I have had 4-5 calls like that over the last few years. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017/40 "2010-09-08T23:05:27Z")
For a classic case of cluelessness regarding Wi-Fi, i love [this caller to Leo Laporte](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0zt4opqL18). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kinda-bullshit-we-deal-with-or-love-your-computer-tech/553017.md?page=3)