# The King of Spain tells Chavez to shut up, and other Iberoamerican Summit weirdness **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 12, 2007, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131 "2007-11-12T14:53:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/21 "2007-11-12T21:02:44Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Queen Beatrix of Holland would be miffed that you left her off your list. [/QUOTE] Dammit! I kept thinking–Netherlands, Netherlands–and then I couldn’t think WHY I was thinking that, so I didn’t put it in. **Guin** –yes, but it would show more respect to be able to salute his smack down in his native tongue. Chavez is an odd duck. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/22 "2007-11-12T22:21:14Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] Dammit! I kept thinking–Netherlands, Netherlands–and then I couldn’t think WHY I was thinking that, so I didn’t put it in. [/QUOTE] And neither of you mentioned Queen Margrethe II of Denmark or King Albert II of Belgium. Then there are the various European principalities, Andorra (Did you know that the President of France is also a prince of Andorra?), Liechtenstein, and Monaco, along with the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg (larger than the principalities), and Vatican City (Is the pope technically a prince of the Holy See?) (And is it scary that I actually knew those without looking except to check spelling and the exact name of the current monarch? Why isn’t my head full of useful things?) Someone else can check the rest of the world (Japan, there that one is done for you. 😃 ), but there are quite a few monarchies still floating around. But Juan Carlos is definitely one of the best. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/23 "2007-11-12T22:42:18Z")
I knew there were many others but I thought the fact that Holland had a Queen was the most surprising. Nava: As the head of the Spanish military could King Carlos deploy the armed forces without authorization from the other branches of government? Not that he would, but could he? ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/24 "2007-11-12T23:09:47Z")
[QUOTE=Lok] Someone else can check the rest of the world (Japan, there that one is done for you. 😃 ), but there are quite a few monarchies still floating around. But Juan Carlos is definitely one of the best. [/QUOTE] Korea still at least one Prince wandering around, though the Royal family in that country were stripped of all of their properties and possessions, so he lives in an apartment in a small village somewhere working in a museum, IIRC. Hawaii also has a royal family, though the two branches of it were arguing over which was the more legitimate branch, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/25 "2007-11-12T23:35:39Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Queen Beatrix of Holland would be miffed that you left her off your list. [/QUOTE] And since she’s probably one of (if not the) richest woman in the world (‘Royal Dutch Shell’, for example), she could be pretty effective at being miffed! ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/26 "2007-11-12T23:42:58Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] And since she’s probably one of (if not the) richest woman in the world (‘Royal Dutch Shell’, for example), she could be pretty effective at being miffed! [/QUOTE] [mythbuster hat on] > [@wiki](#): > > Popular myth had for long stated that the queens of the Netherlands were the richest women in the world. Even in the 2005 Forbes website report, the queen’s family wealth was estimated at $4.7 billion. Queen Juliana however had sold the remaining royal palaces and had put the cultural assets (paintings, antiques, books, etc.) into non-personal trusts. When the inheritance of Juliana was revealed in 2004 it was a ‘mere’ $240 million, which the queen had to share with her three sisters. Since 2006, the queen and her family are no longer included in the Forbes list. The personal assets of the queen include several estates, houses and a shares-portfolio. She is not even a major (much less majority) share holder in Royal Dutch Shell. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/27 "2007-11-12T23:49:38Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] [mythbuster hat on] She is not even a major (much less majority) share holder in Royal Dutch Shell. [/QUOTE] My goodness I’m learning too much from this thread! Here I was thinking Spain had no monarchy and that Shell was an American company. Also, we can add Thailand to the list of ‘still have a monarchy’. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/28 "2007-11-13T00:10:09Z")
[QUOTE=NinjaChick] My goodness I’m learning too much from this thread! Here I was thinking Spain had no monarchy and that Shell was an American company. Also, we can add Thailand to the list of ‘still have a monarchy’. [/QUOTE] Here is a list of [constitutional monarchies.](http://www.hawaiiankingdom.org/constitutional-monarchies.shtml) Apparently, [Swaziland](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/wz.html) has the last ruling monarch. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/29 "2007-11-13T01:11:45Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Here is a list of [constitutional monarchies.](http://www.hawaiiankingdom.org/constitutional-monarchies.shtml) Apparently, [Swaziland](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/wz.html) has the last ruling monarch. [/QUOTE] The Pope is an absolute monarch. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/30 "2007-11-13T01:18:04Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] The Pope is an absolute monarch. [/QUOTE] Thechnically I think he is a prince, God being the monarch. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/31 "2007-11-13T01:23:36Z")
Actually I guess he is an elected monarch. Which is a little different than the hereditary monarchies we were discussing. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/32 "2007-11-13T04:05:58Z")
For the record, the United Kingdom (and the other fifteen Commonwealth realms, including Canada, Australia, and New Zealand), Spain, Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Jordan, Thailand, Lesotho, Bahrain, Cambodia, Bhutan, Nepal, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Swaziland, and Tonga are all current kingdoms. Other monarchies are Andorra (principality), Brunei (sultanate), Japan (empire), Kuwait (emirate), Liechtenstein (principality), Luxembourg (grand duchy), Malaysia (has a Yang di-Pertuan Agong or “paramount ruler” elected from among the nine hereditary rulers of the Malay states); Monaco (principality), Oman (sultanate), Qatar (emirate), United Arab Emirates (President is one of the emirs of the constituent states), and the Vatican City (papacy). 45 sovereign states currently have a monarchy (including the 16 Commonwealth realms), with more than 500 million citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/33 "2007-11-13T06:54:37Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Nava: As the head of the Spanish military could King Carlos deploy the armed forces without authorization from the other branches of government? Not that he would, but could he? [/QUOTE] Yes. He’s both head of the military and of State; the President is head of the Executive branch but even though he’s chosen by Parliament it’s sort of “by delegation” from the King. The Legislative branch (Parliament and Senate) has no say about whatever the military do, beyond approving the laws that apply to them. And the Judicial branch again has no say on whatever the military do (and most trials of military personnel involve military law, therefore the military judiciary, which is a branch of the military and not of government). Like I said, the only time he’s used those powers has been to send the 23F military golpistas back to their quarters. Many of the mid-level golpistas thought they had the king’s backing; low level officers, noncoms and soldiers didn’t have the foggiest what was going on. The other prince of Andorra is the Bishop of Seo D’Urgel, in Spain. Andorra has been a defacto parliamentary monarchy for centuries, but they didn’t have a “constitution” called by that name, they just gave themselves one and changed some other nomenclature to make it easier to join the EU when they want to. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/34 "2007-11-13T07:10:30Z")
I’ll be honest, this education about the government and recent history of Spain is just freaking FASCINATING to me. For some reason, all I really knew about Spain until now was that back in the old days, the Muslims conquered it, then the Christians conquered it back (finishing that in 1492), that they got mixed up (along with the rest of Europe and even parts of the New World) in the Wars of French Revolution and the Napoleanic Wars), and then it’s one big blank until the Spanish Civil War, then another big blank punctuated by “The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly” being made there in the 60’s. Isn’t King Juan Carlos the one who doesn’t wear his crown? Because you can only be crowned by the Pope, and there’s some longstanding policy in Spain that they don’t need the Pope to tell them who the King is… so they just never get around to putting the thing on? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/35 "2007-11-13T07:20:41Z")
Juan Carlos was born in exile; Sofia was thrust into exile by the Colonels’ golpe, she was able to go back to her homeland only recently. Juan Carlos spent much of his youth as a ward of Franco’s, a guarantee that his father wouldn’t attempt a monarchist coup (Franco knew he wouldn’t have been able to win the war without monarchist help, which he wasn’t able to obtain until he promised to restore the monarchy). Knowing that Franco would be able to accept Juan Carlos as his succesor but never D. Juan (Juan Carlos’ father, who’d had his share of headbutting with _el Generalísimo_), they convinced D. Juan to renounce the throne. By insulting two of his Presidents (one by his words, one by not letting him speak), Chávez was insulting everything Juan Carlos has ever trained for, fought for and lived for. And Juan Carlos is old enough to tell brats to geroff his lawn. Heck, a student who behaved in a class discussion the way Chávez did would be expelled to the hallway and given Saturday morning detention - but of course, the class clown likes anything that puts him in the spotlight. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/36 "2007-11-13T07:27:29Z")
The only thing cooler would have been for KJC to punch Chavez in the face. Well, not really. But \*somebody \*has to punch Chavez. Og, is that guy annoying! ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/37 "2007-11-13T07:35:03Z")
Just to confuse matters, the head of the Spanish government is officially called the President, but this is sometimes translated as “Prime Minister” in English. This [Wiki article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Spain) gives more details. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/38 "2007-11-13T09:58:23Z")
Some of the Russian royals are still breathing and could probably give ol’ Pootie-Poot a run for his money if they wanted to return to power. And I’m not really seeing the problem if Juan Carlos had jerkpunched Chavez. Admittedly, it wouldn’t be as humiliating as him getting his ass beat by the “Burger King,” but he obviously needs a good smack down. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/39 "2007-11-13T11:57:49Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] Some of the Russian royals are still breathing and could probably give ol’ Pootie-Poot a run for his money if they wanted to return to power. [/QUOTE] Indeed-one of them was the mayor of Palm Beach. But I don’t know if he counts, since he died a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131/40 "2007-11-13T16:16:54Z")
[QUOTE=Raguleader] Hawaii also has a royal family, though the two branches of it were arguing over which was the more legitimate branch, IIRC. [/QUOTE] Correction: hawaii _had_ a royal family. Then they joined the United States, where such titles are constitutionally forbidden. Germany has no royal family, although some of the Kaiser’s descendants are alive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-of-spain-tells-chavez-to-shut-up-and-other-iberoamerican-summit-weirdness/426131.md?page=3)