# The King’s Man film, opinions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [January 21, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-s-man-film-opinions/958189 "2022-01-21T20:01:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-s-man-film-opinions/958189/41 "2022-03-04T02:19:13Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Look at the way the WW1 soldiers died in Vaughn’s movie, and compare it with the deaths in virtually any other modern WW1 movie: the Vaughn characters die like characters in a Grand Theft Auto game. Empathy is completely absent; it’s just ‘ _ooo, that’s a cool effect, the way the back of his head blew out!_ ’ That’s pretty much standard action movie violence, though, isn’t it? And I actually thought the silent No-Man’s-Land fight _did_ show empathy. The German soldier begging for his life didn’t play to me as sadistic or as a cool effect - it played as intentionally horrific, with the Duke’s Son, who had glorified war and military service, being brutally confronted by the fact that war is pretty literally hell. The issue I had with that sequence is that it was so off-kilter from much of the rest of the movie. The movie itself couldn’t quite seem to decide if the Great War was a senseless horror, as in those scenes, or a glorious crusade, as the Duke seems to indicate later on when he says he wants to be as good a man as his son was - by super-killing the bad guy. > [@Sherrerd](#): > > I did like Rasputin’s dancing, but that was about it. > > ETA: I also liked Tom Hollander’s triple role. Yeah, pretty much. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-s-man-film-opinions/958189/42 "2022-03-04T03:39:43Z")
Rasputin was the best part of the movie. And then there was a whole second half left… I really liked the first movie, but neither the sequel nor the prequel live up to it. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-s-man-film-opinions/958189/43 "2022-03-04T23:59:45Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > The movie itself couldn’t quite seem to decide if the Great War was a senseless horror, as in those scenes, or a glorious crusade, as the Duke seems to indicate later on when he says he wants to be as good a man as his son was - by super-killing the bad guy. Yes, this is a problem. I suppose filmmakers like to offer contrasting values in the hope that some viewers will prefer one set of values presented, and other viewers will prefer an opposing set, also presented. But it comes off as annoying and unsatisfying. It’s a failure to demonstrate convictions. As I think you mentioned earlier, straightforwardly right-wing flicks such as _Red Dawn_ end up seeming more coherent and therefore have more success than movies like _The King’s Man_, which try to have it all ways. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-s-man-film-opinions/958189/44 "2022-03-06T05:18:19Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I suppose filmmakers like to offer contrasting values in the hope that some viewers will prefer one set of values presented, and other viewers will prefer an opposing set, also presented. But it comes off as annoying and unsatisfying. It’s a failure to demonstrate convictions. To be fair, it could also appeal to viewers that appreciate that life is complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-s-man-film-opinions/958189/45 "2022-03-06T22:52:16Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > To be fair, it could also appeal to viewers that appreciate that life is complicated. - Life _is_ complicated, of course. And the best works of art remind us of that. But there’s a difference between an inspired work that shows two simultaneously-existing sides of one issue, and hackwork that tosses in two opposing viewpoints in an attempt to pander to two opposing types of moviegoer. What distinguishes them? The entire field of criticism arose, in part, to answer that question. (And also to get clicks.) ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-s-man-film-opinions/958189/46 "2022-03-06T23:21:02Z")
I don’t have a problem with the movie’s values. The King’s Men organization was created before the events of the film “The Secret Service” to prevent large scale war and such. Obviously, it didn’t work (see: WWII etcetera etcetera etcetera) and by the time of TSS The Kingsmen were just another super gagety spy organization. But this movie was about the idealism of the founders. They had the best intentions, which ran headlong into harsh reality. The excessive violence of Galahad in TSS was a direct result of, not in contradiction of, the pacificism-got-punched-in-the-mouth reality that Arthur experienced. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-s-man-film-opinions/958189/47 "2022-03-06T23:33:38Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > But this movie was about the idealism of the founders. They had the best intentions, which ran headlong into harsh reality. The excessive violence of Galahad in TSS was a direct result of, not in contradiction of, the pacificism-got-punched-in-the-mouth reality that Arthur experienced. That’s a reasonable message for a movie. We just disagree over whether _The King’s Man_ actually communicated that message. I think it was muddled by, for one thing, the obvious pleasure the filmmaker took in the many scenes of violence, which plainly were a selling point for the film, and intended to give pleasure to viewers. If your _actual_ message, as conveyed by the film itself, is ‘this swordplay/gunplay/way of showing people dying is totally cool,’ then the message ‘the founder is agonizing over giving up his treasured pacifism in favor of a ready-resort to violence’ just doesn’t come across. Opinions, plainly, will differ on this. But that’s my take. ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-s-man-film-opinions/958189/48 "2022-03-09T15:21:59Z")
Actually, that reminds me, the weird anachronism of use of the anti-war poem [Dulce et Decorum est](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dulce_et_Decorum_est) twice in the film, without credit (or at least making as if they wrote the words), a poem published posthumously in 1920. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-s-man-film-opinions/958189/49 "2022-03-09T19:48:11Z")
IIRC, they only recited the _poem_ once - at Conrad’s funeral, when Orlando read it while staring down the King. But they used the _phrase_ “dulce et decorum est pro patria mori” very unironically at the church service before Conrad’s unit left for France. And while they didn’t mention Wilfred Owen during the scene, he was listed in the credits. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-king-s-man-film-opinions/958189.md?page=2)