# The Koch Bros. hit a new low -- killing a rapid-bus line in Nashville just because **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 1, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112 "2014-04-01T20:07:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/21 "2014-04-02T02:18:59Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I don’t get some of the stuff ALEC or AFP stands for. Why would ALEC support stand your ground laws, or why would AFP oppose a bus line? > > Are they just throwing bones to their voter base to keep them happy? This bus line will benefit non-whites and poor people, and will make some middle class (whites) uncomfortable according to the article. Is AFP opposed to it because of that, or something else? I don’t get the motive. > > Not to engage in godwins law or histrionics, but I have read that fascism is a unity between the wealthy business class and the socially conservative working class. Seems about right, although these people aren’t nearly powerful enough to be rightly called fascists. But there is a lot of hostility to democratic institutions. I think you need to look for a, how to put it, organic rather than logical or even strategic explanation. All these movements and organizations have grown up together in the same contemporary political environment, they have cross-pollinated their ideas and there is no doubt some overlap in membership and considerable overlap in support-base. All that forms a kind of RW gestalt in which it makes sense for ALEC to support SYG laws even if those are irrelevant to the bottom-line interests of its funders. It is the same on the left side, is it not? ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/22 "2014-04-02T02:25:45Z")
[quote=“Oakminster, post:17, topic:685112”] That’s pretty much his whole schtick. \* Here’s what somebody said. \ > [@](#): > > Boy, conservatives suck. Durp durp.\* > > That shit gets old. He should learn a new trick. You left out the part about linking to his own threads to bolster his arguments. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/23 "2014-04-02T02:32:55Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > You left out the part about linking to his own threads to bolster his arguments. Once again, I link my own threads to avoid having to **repeat** my arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/24 "2014-04-02T02:38:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not that it’s quite the worst thing they’ve ever done; it’s the “just because” motivation that sinks it. As **Leaper** put it in post #2. Actually, what I meant to express is that, for me, it goes beyond “just because.” It’s a demonstration of political power to bolster supporters and gain new “followers” in other states. The particular law is a means to an end, without much if anything to do with the issue at hand. IMO, that goes beyond “just because,” which implies purposelessness. There’s a LOT of purpose here. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/25 "2014-04-02T02:52:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Once again, I link my own threads to avoid having to **repeat** my arguments. Uh huh. “I already provided a link/copypasta dump about this topic without adding any substantive comment. Here it is… Here’s another…” Christ. Get a life. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/26 "2014-04-02T03:11:50Z")
I don’t really think the Kochs can hit new lows. I’m reminded of an old jewish radio play on BBC Radio 4 that ended: ‘_When you hit rock-bottom, there’s only one way to go_…’ ‘…_ **sideways** _’. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/27 "2014-04-02T03:31:57Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > I don’t really think the Kochs can hit new lows. They **will!** Have faith! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/28 "2014-04-02T03:32:59Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Actually, what I meant to express is that, for me, it goes beyond “just because.” It’s a demonstration of political power to bolster supporters and gain new “followers” in other states. The particular law is a means to an end, without much if anything to do with the issue at hand. IMO, that goes beyond “just because,” which implies purposelessness. There’s a LOT of purpose here. Yes, there is, and **that’s** what drives it lower. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/29 "2014-04-02T03:46:21Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Indeed. He designed the overpasses on the Long Island “parkways” to be to low for buses to pass under to discourage busing city dwellers to Jones Beach. Robert Caro’s isn’t the last word on Moses’ intent. As Bernward Joerges notes in his essay [Do Politics Have Artefacts?](http://www.nyu.edu/projects/nissenbaum/papers/artefacts.pdf) “\*n the USA, trucks, buses and other commercial vehicles were prohibited on all parkways. Moses did nothing different on Long Island from any parks commissioner in the country.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/30 "2014-04-02T03:53:29Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > Robert Caro’s isn’t the last word on Moses’ intent. As Bernward Joerges notes in his essay [Do Politics Have Artefacts?](http://www.nyu.edu/projects/nissenbaum/papers/artefacts.pdf) “\*n the USA, trucks, buses and other commercial vehicles were prohibited on all parkways. Moses did nothing different on Long Island from any parks commissioner in the country.” Shame on all parks commissioners in the country, then. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/31 "2014-04-02T05:32:43Z")
The media presumes that organizations funded through contributions from individuals are run by those individuals. I contribute money to the Girl Scouts, my local art museum, my children’s school, local food bank, Habitat for Humanity, etc…as a donor, I hope I’m not declared responsible for all of their actions. OP’s headline is misleading in attributing the actions of the AFP to the Koch’s. Contrary to popular media and Senate majority leader speculation, they are not one in the same. I also find great irony in the quote from the Salon article: > [@Salon](#): > > And their business is a toxic and destructive one that is hastening our planet’s destruction Their business is producing gasoline, ethanol, paper products, carpet fibers, spandex fibers, fertilizers, electronic connectors, etc. Sounds pretty damn evil. :rolleyes: I’d be willing to bet that the author of the article, as well as the OP, uses most if not everyone of those products on a daily basis. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/32 "2014-04-02T05:50:35Z")
Caution: obnoxious nitpicking follows. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Yes, there is, and **that’s** what drives it lower. So you agree then that it’s NOT “just because”? > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Contrary to popular media and Senate majority leader speculation, they are not one in the same. One _and_ the same. Anyway, would this be happening without their approval? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/33 "2014-04-02T09:28:41Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Their business is producing gasoline, ethanol, paper products, carpet fibers, spandex fibers, fertilizers, electronic connectors, etc. Sounds pretty damn evil. :rolleyes: I’d be willing to bet that the author of the article, as well as the OP, uses most if not everyone of those products on a daily basis. It’s the widespread daily use of these products that creates most of the pollution on this planet, especially in their production. And while I don’t know this for certain, I’m willing to guess the Koch Bros. aren’t big on reducing emissions to protect the environment. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/34 "2014-04-02T12:26:44Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > It’s the widespread daily use of these products that creates most of the pollution on this planet, especially in their production. And while I don’t know this for certain, I’m willing to guess the Koch Bros. aren’t big on reducing emissions to protect the environment. Then the people that should be blamed are the consumers that have created the demand for the products. And as a matter of fact, their companies are some of the most highly awarded by the EPA for environmentally compliant operations. In addition one of their subsidiaries, John Zink, is a leading producer of emissions control equipment, to help reduce pollution. But haters gonna hate instead of doing research beyond “hit piece” articles, that are politically motivated. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/35 "2014-04-02T12:28:55Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Anyway, would this be happening without their approval? Do you seriously believe that two people who manage a $100 billion business have the time to get involved in the daily minutia of whether a town in Tennessee gets a new bus line? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/36 "2014-04-02T12:35:45Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Then the people that should be blamed are the consumers that have created the demand for the products. Okay fine, I’ll quit driving, writing, using computers, drinking beer, and swap out my carpet for hardwood floors as soon as you do. I gave up wearing spandex after the 80’s, so I’m already ahead there. Send me a PM or write me a letter as soon as you…oh wait, you won’t be able to, will you? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/37 "2014-04-02T13:16:15Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > And starting yet another content free thread to stroke your epeen is fucking annoying. Sure looks like content to me. Maybe the news that the Koch brothers are fucking up cities that they don’t have any sort of direct interest in is ‘content-free’ to you, but that just means that goddamn, you’re an idiot. > [@Oakminster](#): > > - > > Boy, conservatives suck. Durp durp.\* > > That shit gets old. You bet, it gets old. Now could you assholes stop fucking up our country for no good reason? Because it sure as shit is getting way too old. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/38 "2014-04-02T13:41:54Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > And starting yet another content free thread to stroke your epeen is fucking annoying. Have something to say or shut the fuck up, asshole. This is pretty much the textbook example of ignoring the message to attack the messenger. I suggest we sticky this post for future reference. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/39 "2014-04-02T13:45:25Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > The media presumes that organizations funded through contributions from individuals are run by those individuals. I contribute money to the Girl Scouts, my local art museum, my children’s school, local food bank, Habitat for Humanity, etc…as a donor, I hope I’m not declared responsible for all of their actions. > > OP’s headline is misleading in attributing the actions of the AFP to the Koch’s. Contrary to popular media and Senate majority leader speculation, they are not one in the same. In general, this whole thread is just a bunch of weakminded liberal yapping. There was obviously a lot of local opposition to this which was the core of the opposition to the bus line, and the AFP involvement appears to have been minimal. And the notion that the AFP got involved in this issue just to show off their power is simpleminded bogeyman nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/40 "2014-04-02T14:10:15Z")
[quote=“buddha\_david, post:36, topic:685112”] Okay fine, I’ll quit driving, writing, using computers, drinking beer, and swap out my carpet for hardwood floors as soon as you do. I gave up wearing spandex after the 80’s, so I’m already ahead there.[\QUOTE] Interesting, you demand these products, while vilifying those that produce them, we’ll not every producer, just those that have a different political view than you. In fact DuPont, ADM, Dow Chemical, GE, Duke Energy, all make Koch look like a squeaky clean choir boy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112.md?page=3)