# The Koch Bros. hit a new low -- killing a rapid-bus line in Nashville just because **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 1, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112 "2014-04-01T20:07:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/41 "2014-04-02T14:35:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I think you need to look for a, how to put it, organic rather than logical or even strategic explanation. All these movements and organizations have grown up together in the same contemporary political environment, they have cross-pollinated their ideas and there is no doubt some overlap in membership and considerable overlap in support-base. All that forms a kind of RW gestalt in which it makes sense for ALEC to support SYG laws even if those are irrelevant to the bottom-line interests of its funders. > > It is the same on the left side, is it not? I considered the two groups to be different. I don’t understand why large corporations would care about gun rights, abortion, public transportation, etc. The left has an alliance of (among other things) labor unions, environmentalists, the poor, disadvantaged minorities, liberals. There is some overlap. For example when prop 8 was happening in California, labor unions were devoting time and money to stop it despite them not benefitting directly. I assumed it was alliance building. Labor unions want the support of liberals and minorities. I guess ALEC is doing the same thing, alliance building. But since Koch and ALEC try to be secretive there is no publicity to doing that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/42 "2014-04-02T15:04:20Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > Christ. Get a life. Never, ever say that to a Doper. You know it’s hopeless. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/43 "2014-04-02T15:28:35Z")
[quote=“Oakminster, post:17, topic:685112”] That’s pretty much his whole schtick. \* Here’s what somebody said. \ > [@](#): > > Boy, conservatives suck. Durp durp.\* > > That shit gets old. He should learn a new trick. BTW, in case you have not noticed, [we have a whole Pit **thread** running devoted to just exactly that.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=511831) It’s perfectly kosher, and up to 13,821 posts now. (They’re just so generous in giving us material to work with . . .) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/44 "2014-04-02T15:41:34Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > > [@buddha\_david](#): > > > > Okay fine, I’ll quit driving, writing, using computers, drinking beer, and swap out my carpet for hardwood floors as soon as you do. I gave up wearing spandex after the 80’s, so I’m already ahead there. > > Interesting, you demand these products, while vilifying those that produce them, we’ll not every producer, just those that have a different political view than you. In fact DuPont, ADM, Dow Chemical, GE, Duke Energy, all make Koch look like a squeaky clean choir boy. Well, many people in Chicago thought that Al Capone was a swell guy for his charity work in the height of the depression. The point here is that criticizing and taking the gangster to task for the things that are unethical was still a valid thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/45 "2014-04-02T16:05:14Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Weak pit. Copy-pasting an article, no piss and vinegar. 0/10. Apply yourself. What, BrainGlutton is new to you? This is his schtick. That’s why he’s know as the Linda Richman (of SNL fame) of the SDMB. He posts some stuff from a link, or maybe just the link and wants people to “discuss”. It’s pathetic, yes. And yes he is. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/46 "2014-04-02T18:33:40Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Well, many people in Chicago thought that Al Capone was a swell guy for his charity work in the height of the depression. > > The point here is that criticizing and taking the gangster to task for the things that are unethical was still a valid thing to do. Your response does not compute within the context of the conversation. Your point doesn’t even make sense. Next thing you’ll do is drag out the Hitler comparison. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/47 "2014-04-02T18:48:38Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Your response does not compute within the context of the conversation. Your point doesn’t even make sense. Next thing you’ll do is drag out the Hitler comparison. It does not compute to you because understanding why does show how dumb and illogical your point was. In this case the Koch brothers are indeed involved in funding a group that is involved in the worst disinformation campaign seen to discredit science (besides some public transportation item), the fact that in the open they are supporting science at the same time does not take away the fact that what they are doing is reprehensible still. Incidentally, dragging Hitler into this does make you the one with the falling argument as Godwin could tell you. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/48 "2014-04-02T18:51:43Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > In this case the Koch brothers are indeed involved in funding a group that is involved in the worst disinformation campaign seen to discredit science . . . You mean climate change, not evolution, right? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/49 "2014-04-02T18:57:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You mean climate change, not evolution, right? Both. > **[The Weekend Wonk: Educating for Ignorance – It’s “School Choice” Week!](https://thinc.blog/2014/02/01/educating-for-ignorance-its-school-choice-week/)** > > The video above contains some pieces from my video documenting the 2012 Heartland Institute Climate Conference in Chicago – including some clips that did not make the original cut.  I wanted … > [@](#): > > It’s School Choice Week - celebrating the right of your children to be taught that the earth might be 5 billion, or 5000 years old, and to make up their own minds about the science. They will also have the right to be taught that maybe the last 150 years of physics is wrong, heat seeking missiles don’t really seek heat, CO2 lasers don’t really lase, and heat trapping gases can’t really trap heat – that they should “think for themselves”, and, well, listen to Rush Limbaugh instead of the National Academy. > > The celebration is supported by a rogues gallery of the usual suspect right wing think tanks, like the Heartland Institute, Cato, Freedomworks, **Americans for Prosperity** , and the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC). Why would a group of far right wing, mostly libertarian, Ayn Randian types be in bed with the tongue talkers and snake handlers of the creationist movement? > > Chris Mooney in Slate: > > > [@](#): > > > > All across the country—most recently, in the state of Texas—local battles over the teaching of evolution are taking on a new complexion. More and more, it isn’t just evolution under attack, it’s also the teaching of climate science. The National Center for Science Education, the leading group defending the teaching of evolution across the country, has even broadened its portfolio: Now it protects climate education too. > > ``` > How did these issues get wrapped up together? > > ``` > > > [@](#): > > > > There is the “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” theory. In other words, anti-evolutionists and climate deniers were both getting dumped on so much by the scientific community that they sort of naturally joined forces. And that makes sense: We know that in general, people gather their issue stances in bunches, because those stances travel together in a group (often under the aegis of a political party) > > But there’s also the “declining trust in science” theory, according to which political conservatives have, in general, become distrustful of the scientific community (we have data showing this is the case), and this has infected how they think about several different politicized scientific issues. And who knows: Perhaps the distrust started with the evolution issue. It is easy to imagine how a Christian conservative who thinks liberal scientists are full of it on evolution would naturally distrust said scientists on other issues as well. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/50 "2014-04-02T18:58:09Z")
GIGO get back on your meds. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/51 "2014-04-02T18:59:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > In order to boost sales to the gun/automobile industries which will then lavish huge cash donations upon them? Bingo. Besides the AFP/Koch brothers, you know who the other big-money powerbroker spearheading the killing of this mass transit project is? A gentleman named [Lee Beaman](http://www.tennessean.com/article/20131030/NEWS/102120001/Lee-Beaman-helps-bankroll-opposition-to-mayor-s-Amp-project). You non-locals may not have heard of him, but to us he is familiar as the owner of [Beaman Toyota](http://www.beamantoyota.com/index.htm). And Beaman Dodge-Chrysler-Jeep. And Beaman Ford. And Beaman Buick-GMC. And Beaman Scion. It’s almost cartoonish that a major eco-friendly mass transit project - giving access to downtown Nashville from some of the poorest parts of the Metro area - is being blocked by rich oilmen and a car salesman with his money in the pockets of all the local politicians. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > In general, this whole thread is just a bunch of weakminded liberal yapping. > > There was obviously a lot of local opposition to this which was the core of the opposition to the bus line, and the AFP involvement appears to have been minimal. And the notion that the AFP got involved in this issue just to show off their power is simpleminded bogeyman nonsense. Wrong. [Three out of four](http://www.nashvillemta.org/pdf/fn57.pdf) Nashvillians support it. But groups like ALEC, AFP and Tea Party groups control both houses of the legislature. So every time Nashville tries to step into the 21st century, the dickheads at the state house stomp them down. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/52 "2014-04-02T19:13:50Z")
> [@Neidhart](#): > > Can’t find it on Google, but I recall reading about some English aristocrat in the 1830s being dead-set against railways because “these things will allow the _working classes_ to move about!” “[Railroads] would only encourage the common people to move about needlessly." Lord Wellington. Had some sort of beef with railroads. > **[Yahoo Search - Web Search](https://search.yahoo.com/)** > > The search engine that helps you find exactly what you're looking for. Find the most relevant information, video, images, and answers from all across the Web. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/53 "2014-04-02T19:16:33Z")
[Here](http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2014/03/inside-nashvilles-oddly-ugly-bus-rapid-transit-debate/8540/) is a good short summary article about the opposition, which is largely painted as a battle between wealthy West End and less affluent East Nashville. (emphasis below is mine): > [@](#): > > take a drive down Mayor Karl Dean’s street in the affluent Green Hills neighborhood. There, a lone “AMP YES!” lawn sign is perched in the mayor’s yard. A short spin down the same street, however, and signs broadcasting the reverse view — “STOP AMP” — are replete. Standing on wood frames and far larger than the supportive placards, the signs are nearly as ubiquitous as the historic Cape Cods that fill the neighborhood **(they’re also, it turns out, being bankrolled by one of Nashville’s biggest auto dealers).** > [@](#): > > Back when public debate over the BRT first started heating up in fall of 2012, a West End resident actually told a transit planner at a public hearing that **“we don’t want the riffraff from East Nashville in our neighborhood.” Another homeowner said an influx of “burger-flippers” into the western precincts was a worry.** ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/54 "2014-04-02T19:16:35Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > GIGO get back on your meds. Sure, besides the Godwin you can only resort to ad hominems and not to deal with the evidence shown, not my problem if you want to brand yourself as a spewer of irrational points. Again, that argument is like trying to make Dick Cheney a nice guy for supporting good causes now. But that does does not remove the evil done during his time in the Bush the lesser administration. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/55 "2014-04-02T19:19:36Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Interesting, you demand these products, while vilifying those that produce them, we’ll not every producer, just those that have a different political view than you. Hey! Didn’t I mention that I no longer wear spandex? :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/56 "2014-04-02T19:49:12Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Do you seriously believe that two people who manage a $100 billion business have the time to get involved in the daily minutia of whether a town in Tennessee gets a new bus line? I’m saying that this appears, at least on the surface, to my limited knowledge, to be enough of an expenditure of resources that they’d at least know about what their employees (who are, I’d agree, doing the vast majority of the work here) are doing. Heck, maybe I’m wrong, but that was the impression I got. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/57 "2014-04-02T19:59:56Z")
Leaper: Considering that AFP is not controlled by the Koch’s and neither of the Koch Brothers is on the board of AFP, the AFP employees in mention aren’t Koch employees. I’m sure that’s probably a bummer for them, as their benefits would probably be much better if they were. GIGO: You keep referring to “good causes” No where is anyone arguing about the good causes of the Koch brothers. Catch up. You have shown\*\* no evidence \*\*about Charles and David Koch’s desire to teach your kids about creationism. Buddah: Pics from your mother, indicate that you recently wore a speedo to a pool party. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/58 "2014-04-02T20:27:13Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Sure looks like content to me. Maybe the news that the Koch brothers are fucking up cities that they don’t have any sort of direct interest in is ‘content-free’ to you, but that just means that goddamn, you’re an idiot. BG rarely contributes any original thought. All he does is copy/paste crap he finds on the internet, with a smug but worthless “conservatives suck” addendum. He seems to think this has some value. He’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/59 "2014-04-02T20:32:04Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > All he does is copy/paste crap he finds on the internet, with a smug but worthless “conservatives suck” addendum. Whee! I just copied and pasted some crap I found on the internet! . ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112/60 "2014-04-02T20:33:05Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > BG rarely contributes any original thought. All he does is copy/paste crap he finds on the internet, with a smug but worthless “conservatives suck” addendum. He seems to think this has some value. He’s wrong. To be fair, your typical post is, “Another _Conservatives are Evil_, circlejerk.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-koch-bros-hit-a-new-low-killing-a-rapid-bus-line-in-nashville-just-because/685112.md?page=4)