# The KT impact: deaths on the day found in Dakota **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 30, 2019, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757 "2019-03-30T09:47:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/141 "2019-04-05T18:06:37Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > No new information from the PNAS article. That’s not too deprecate its value; it just doesn’t address the matter. So Preston shouldn’t have either. Actually, there is, since the ceratopsian fossil is mentioned although not in that context. So Preston should have concealed the fact that dinosaur fossils were found in the deposit? Of course, that would have raised cries of secretiveness once a paper was published on them. So it’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/142 "2019-04-05T18:49:18Z")
Regardless of the probative value of the Tanis site, the excitement (not to mention vitriol) about it supports the idea that similar sites–ones associated with edge of the direct effects of the impact–would be scientifically valuable. Thus, a possibly naïve question: Could we make sufficiently detailed models of the impact and the resulting tsunami to map the approximate edges of the resulting floods? Then use core sampling to refine the model and narrow the field, giving us a hot zone for potential Tanis-like sites? Is the data we have (or could obtain) good enough to do this, or would we just be trying to reconstruct a cow from a ton of hamburger? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/143 "2019-04-05T19:04:06Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Thus, a possibly naïve question: > Could we make sufficiently detailed models of the impact and the resulting tsunami to map the approximate edges of the resulting floods? Then use core sampling to refine the model and narrow the field, giving us a hot zone for potential Tanis-like sites? Is the data we have (or could obtain) good enough to do this, or would we just be trying to reconstruct a cow from a ton of hamburger? The odds of finding Tanis itself were astronomical. Sites affected by the KT tsunamis have been found but as far as I know were underwater at the time. The PNAS article says that the extent of the North American seaway at this time is poorly known, at least in this vicinity, because its shoreline has mostly eroded away. They postulate that an arm must have extended into the vicinity of Tanis on the basis of the presence of marine fauna, not because there is direct evidence of it. Shorelines make up only a small percentage of the surface of the Earth, and by their nature are ephemeral in any one location. Being on the edge of the land, they are subject to being eroded away. Finding a bit of shoreline as it existed during one specific day many millions of years ago would be the longest of long shots. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/144 "2019-04-05T19:26:01Z")
Ah, well, it was a nice thought. Thank you for the answer, **Colibri**. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/145 "2019-04-05T19:50:59Z")
More on the seaway in question: [Western Interior Seaway - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Interior_Seaway) The maps are cartoons, of course. Here’s another cartoon showing a smaller sea at impact time here: [File:North america 65mya.png - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:North_america_65mya.png) It didn’t dry out until later. So, as mentioned, it’s hard to know where to look. Some coast may have eroded, e.g. during later transgressions, and an awful lot of it is buried. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/146 "2019-04-05T20:27:25Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > More on the seaway in question: [Western Interior Seaway - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Interior_Seaway) Also sometimes known as [the Pierre Seaway](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22pierre+seaway%22&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=bks&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwizgvCH4rnhAhUFzIMKHXcnA7Y4ChD8BQgUKAE&biw=1408&bih=703). (_Ammonites and Other Cephalopods of the Pierre Seaway_ is a nice book, if you are into ammonites and other cephalopods.) Probably the best book on the WIS/Pierre Seaway is [_Oceans of Kansas_](https://books.google.com/books/about/Oceans_of_Kansas_Second_Edition.html?id=Ej4rDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button#v=onepage&q&f=false). (I have the first edition, I wasn’t aware that there is a second.) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/147 "2019-04-05T22:46:06Z")
[An interesting Facebook post](https://www.facebook.com/1664355713876757/posts/2189487548030235?sfns=mo). ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/148 "2019-04-05T23:01:52Z")
Seems all too common in archeology. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/149 "2019-04-05T23:02:57Z")
This thread reminds me that I would like to visit an exposed KPg boundary some time. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/150 "2019-04-05T23:41:47Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [An interesting Facebook post](https://www.facebook.com/1664355713876757/posts/2189487548030235?sfns=mo). Steve Niklas, the author of the post, and Rob Sula and Ron Frithiof who are mentioned in it, are all included in the acknowledgements of the PNAS paper, along with many others, for “technical assistance and/or critique.” Admittedly they weren’t credited with the discovery in so many words, but they weren’t ignored. Preston just attributes the discovery of the site to “a collector.” Maybe DePalma glossed over the role of Niklas and the others in discovery of the site, or maybe Preston got it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/151 "2019-04-06T05:49:41Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [An interesting Facebook post](https://www.facebook.com/1664355713876757/posts/2189487548030235?sfns=mo). I think the comment by Karyn Chiapella below the post hits the nail on head. They totally failed to realize the significance of the site. They walked away from it, leaving it to a graduate student, and showed no further interest in it. They seem to have thought, “It’s just a lot of fish fossils. Not much of a commercial market for them, so we’re not going to make any money from the site. But maybe there are some fish of academic interest there, so let’s hand it over to this guy who has the inclination to excavate it, as long as he pays the landowner.” Paleo Prospectors is a commercial company. They didn’t think they could make any money from the site, so they totally abandoned it. Now they are bitter that they haven’t been given credit for _not_ recognizing what is probably the discovery of the century! Tough shit! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/152 "2019-04-06T08:45:05Z")
Definitely sour grapes… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/153 "2019-04-06T18:48:37Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Steve Niklas, the author of the post, and Rob Sula and Ron Frithiof who are mentioned in it, are all included in the acknowledgements of the PNAS paper, along with many others, for “technical assistance and/or critique.” Admittedly they weren’t credited with the discovery in so many words, but they weren’t ignored. Preston just attributes the discovery of the site to “a collector.” Maybe DePalma glossed over the role of Niklas and the others in discovery of the site, or maybe Preston got it wrong. In any case, unless the oral agreement DePalma had included that he had to ensure that any publication by third parties also make such an acknowledgement, then it wouldn’t apply to the university press releases or to the New Yorker article. ---
**Author:** ![Oukile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@Oukile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oukile)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2019, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/154 "2019-04-06T23:13:58Z")
Amazing read (that includes the New Yorker’s article, the PNAS paper and this thread). Thanks the Dope, you made my day! ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2021, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/155 "2021-12-11T04:41:07Z")
Later studies will find that it was mid-afternoon on a Tuesday. > **[Study pinpoints timing of Chicxulub asteroid impact](https://phys.org/news/2021-12-chicxulub-asteroid-impact.html?fbclid=IwAR1GMniFQJj6oGKOwvp7A3VEWmuuoHlxhxmPWqBmVyDkxT32xkkjTBOrLTA)** > > A groundbreaking study led by researchers at Florida Atlantic University and an international team of scientists conclusively confirms the time year of the catastrophic Chicxulub asteroid, responsible for the extinction of dinosaurs and 75 percent of... ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2021, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/156 "2021-12-12T00:26:54Z")
I hate Tuesdays. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2021, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/157 "2021-12-12T00:31:53Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Later studies will find that it was mid-afternoon on a Tuesday. - > > [Study pinpoints timing of Chicxulub asteroid impact](https://phys.org/news/2021-12-chicxulub-asteroid-impact.html?fbclid=IwAR1GMniFQJj6oGKOwvp7A3VEWmuuoHlxhxmPWqBmVyDkxT32xkkjTBOrLTA) Dropping in right before tea. How _rude._ ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/158 "2021-12-13T14:54:02Z")
The journal article: [DOI: 10.1038/s41598-021-03232-9](http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/s41598-021-03232-9) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/159 "2022-05-29T15:32:29Z")
Bumping this old topic to say that BBC produced an excellent special narrated by David Attenborough on precisely this topic, almost like a live-action recreation of the _New Yorker_ article, with great special effects. It was on PBS a couple of weeks ago. Well worth seeing. Note that there are several other specials titled _The Day the Dinosaurs Died_. The one I’m talking about is the one with Attenborough. > **[Dinosaur Apocalypse](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/series/dinosaur-apocalypse/)** > > Newly found fossils may reveal an unprecedented snapshot of the day the dinosaurs died. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757/160 "2022-05-30T01:22:15Z")
Settles in for some happy sipping, stitching and screening. A great way to spend the evening, thank you! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-kt-impact-deaths-on-the-day-found-in-dakota/831757.md?page=9)