# The Lady and the Dale on HBO

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-and-the-dale-on-hbo/932383>\
**Category:** Cafe Society\
**Tags:** hbomax-wb-dc\
**Created:** [February 7, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-and-the-dale-on-hbo/932383 "2021-02-07T18:05:37Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 3\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\
**Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-and-the-dale-on-hbo/932383/21 "2021-02-15T19:18:49Z")

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I guess Tucker comes by his smarminess naturally.

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**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\
**Post date:** [February 15, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-and-the-dale-on-hbo/932383/22 "2021-02-15T20:36:45Z")

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I’m guessing Dick always wanted to name his son after a failed automobile, but “Dale” was too sexually ambiguous.

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**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\
**Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-and-the-dale-on-hbo/932383/23 "2021-02-16T01:03:46Z")

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> [@Bijou\_Drains](#):
>
> seems like they left out what happened after the Austin paper wrote about her.

The documentary did include some information about Austin authorities doing more code-enforcement against the family business after the newspaper stories, but not a lot of specifics.  
  
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> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#):
>
> I’m guessing Dick always wanted to name his son after a failed automobile, but “Dale” was too sexually ambiguous. .

😄 Good one!  
  
  
  
On the whole: the documentary is well worth watching, but as the historian interviewed (Susan Stryker) conceded in that final episode, Liz Carmichael may not be the ideal person to stand as a role model or representative of trans-hood.

With that remark Stryker approached making up for remarks made in the second episode, to the effect that Michaels’/Carmichael’s criminal conduct is understandable because it’s so hard to be trans. (I’m not seeing a source quoting Stryker, but will stand by my summary.)

It’s never helpful for those advocating for civil rights for a demographic group to assert that it’s understandable that members of that group commit crimes because their lives are so hard—it’s just not an effective tactic.

I’m also bothered by another feature of this story: that Liz claimed the “mother” position for herself while relegating the woman who’d given birth to the five children, Vivian, to the status of “aunt” or even just “assistant.” There are hundreds of families with two mommies or two daddies—booting Vivian out of the nuclear family that way seems pathological.

And as others have said, the most damning evidence against Liz may be the seeming indifference to the welfare of those five children. Those interviewed appear to have felt genuine love for Liz, but it seems obvious that their well-being was not uppermost among Liz’s concerns.

All in all, I’d say this is a well-made documentary about an extremely flawed human being.

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