# The lady beggar--how did she do this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 22, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690 "2010-09-22T19:41:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/61 "2010-09-23T17:25:06Z")
I think there might be misremembering involved, but I think the ‘trick’ simply consists of: Getting the mark to engage with the beggar, instead of blanking Getting the mark to put his hand in his pocket and admit he has change After that, the money is as good as given away, regardless whether the guess is a hit. The beggars in Portsmouth always ask for a small, but very specific sum of money - often something that would be mildly troublesome to sort or count out from a loose handful of change, so it ends up being: **Beggar** : 'scuse mate, I’m sorry to trouble you, but could you lend me 55p for a phone call? **Mark** : (instinctively puts hand in pocket, and thus has already lost the game - Pulls out a handful of change. There’s a dirty, smelly beggar right in his face, he feels threatened and makes a snap decision that will end the discomfort) **Mark** : Here’s a quid. (walks away, relieved) ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/62 "2010-09-23T17:32:28Z")
okay,now…to sum up the responses—we ain’t got no good answer yet! So l propose to the OP that he go back to Safeway another few times…maybe more than a few times. Collect more data, and try to keep track of it. Carry a specific amount of change which varies each time. And most importantly, keep track of your own reactions,emotions, etc—what tell-tale signs are you giving out, sub-consciously or not? And watch the beggar-woman very,very carefully– Is she being more confrontational than you realized, so you just stop counting when you reach her amount and give it to her so she’ll get out of your face? Watch her hands, too. And please figure out what’s going , so we can solve this mystery! ---
**Author:** ![Lunar\_Saltlick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/977dab/32.png) [@Lunar\_Saltlick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lunar_Saltlick)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/63 "2010-09-23T17:33:11Z")
> [@ianzin](#): > > …It is far more likely that the woman proposed the bet, then wrote the amount down on a scrap of paper or something, then asked Hilarity to check the exact amount and then showed that the amount she had written down was correct. This is a standard magician’s trick. As a Member of the Inner Magic Circle there are restrictions on what I can say about how it’s done, but it _is_ a trick and it isn’t guessing. What?!? Look, I bow down to your great knowledge of these things, but it seems to me you are seriously misrepresenting what happened in that parking lot. The OP never mentioned any writing down of amounts! That’d be a hell of a thing to omit! I’m sticking with my explanation in post #49, that the woman essentially flustered the OP and her friend into making a rough estimate based on a quick glance at the change. They really just wanted to get it over with and get the emaciated crone away from them and they were quite happy to see 83 cents (or whatever) on a quick glance when in fact there was only 73 cents, or 78 or 88 or some number where a nickle, dime or penny was missing to make up the correct amount. Anything in the rough vicinity of 83 cents would be seen as 83. I bet that the old crone occasionally scores a direct hit, and fifty percent of the time, gets close enough that the person’s brain quickly “sees” the correct amount as the stench from the withered witch overpowers them. They hand it over, even though it was 11 cents off, and they come away, slowly recovering their senses and saying: How’d she do that?" The rest of the time, the aged harpy is waaaay off, and it’s really obvious, and shrugs her shoulders and has a ready line, and so the person hands it over anyway. C’mon OP, was there any writing down of amounts? I’m assuming that (like me) you’d be ever-so-slightly flustered by this woman into seeing the amount she mentioned, but these guys are suggesting that you were so frazzled you forgot key elements of the story! ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/64 "2010-09-23T17:35:08Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > okay,now…to sum up the responses—we ain’t got no good answer yet! > > So l propose to the OP that he go back to Safeway another few times…maybe more than a few times. > Collect more data, and try to keep track of it. > Carry a specific amount of change which varies each time. And most importantly, keep track of your own reactions,emotions, etc—what tell-tale signs are you giving out, sub-consciously or not? > > And watch the beggar-woman very,very carefully– > Is she being more confrontational than you realized, so you just stop counting when you reach her amount and give it to her so she’ll get out of your face? Watch her hands, too. > > And please figure out what’s going , so we can solve this mystery! I vote we waterboard the old crone until she talks. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/65 "2010-09-23T17:39:37Z")
> [@Lunar\_Saltlick](#): > > What?!? Look, I bow down to your great knowledge of these things, but it seems to me you are seriously misrepresenting what happened in that parking lot. Magicians _always_ say something like that - part of the package of being a professional magician seems to be: Always say you know how it was done, but can’t tell, and: Meet anyone else’s theory with the response “Well, yes, that would be _one_, rather crude way to do it”. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/66 "2010-09-23T18:04:33Z")
Did the OP say where she retrived her change from? One location? Multiple locations? Purse, pocket, car console? Details would help. Also is it possible beggar lady blurted out an indistinct answer? “Let me guess how much change you have.” “Okay.” “Brefeshtyfrea cents.” “Eighty-three cents.” “Yep, that’s what I said, eighty-three cents!” ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/67 "2010-09-23T18:08:49Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > okay,now…to sum up the responses—we ain’t got no good answer yet! > > So l propose to the OP that he go back to Safeway another few times…maybe more than a few times. > Collect more data, and try to keep track of it. > Carry a specific amount of change which varies each time. And most importantly, keep track of your own reactions,emotions, etc—what tell-tale signs are you giving out, sub-consciously or not? > > And watch the beggar-woman very,very carefully– > Is she being more confrontational than you realized, so you just stop counting when you reach her amount and give it to her so she’ll get out of your face? Watch her hands, too. > > And please figure out what’s going , so we can solve this mystery! I came back to say the same thing. The beggars around here are pretty predictable. The fact that that the OP ran into her twice suggests that’s her regular spot. I’m holding onto my theory in post #7 that it’s just a ruse to get your money out of your pocket. If the OP hasn’t left out any details I think it was lucky guesses, as remarkable as that may seem. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/68 "2010-09-23T18:25:34Z")
If you’re going back, just ask the lady beggar how it’s done. Or offer her $5 to tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/69 "2010-09-23T18:29:00Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Perhaps the cashier at the shop radio transmits the amount of change he’s just given someone to the lady beggar, for a percentage of the take. Yea, I’m guessing the cashier is in on it. The cashier simply tells the begger how much change he/she saw during the transaction. Was it the same cashier both times, **Hilarity**? If so, case solved. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/70 "2010-09-23T18:33:33Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > > > Perhaps the cashier at the shop radio transmits the amount of change he’s just given someone to the lady beggar, for a percentage of the take. > > Yea, I’m guessing the cashier is in on it. The cashier simply tells the begger how much change he/she saw during the transaction. > > Was it the same cashier both times, **Hilarity**? If so, case solved. She says, in the OP, the first time this happened to her, she hadn’t even gone to the store yet. (ETA: Or substitute “he” and “him” if I got the pronouns wrong.) ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/71 "2010-09-23T18:59:44Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > She says, in the OP, the first time this happened to her, she hadn’t even gone to the store yet. You’re correct; I missed that. But why was she in the parking lot and about to start her car if she had not gone in the store yet? Did she go to a different store? If so, perhaps the begger is working with more than one cahsier… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/72 "2010-09-23T19:06:05Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > You’re correct; I missed that. But why was she in the parking lot and about to start her car if she had not gone in the store yet? It might be a good idea to read the whole thread, since the question has already been asked .😉 ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/73 "2010-09-23T19:38:18Z")
> [@The\_Controvert](#): > > If you’re going back, just ask the lady beggar how it’s done. Or offer her $5 to tell you. I second this. I’ll even spot you the $5. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/74 "2010-09-23T19:50:18Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > Were you wearing really tight pants? That occurred to me the moment I read the OP, but upon rereading I saw that **Hilarity** mentions a change purse on the first encounter, so it seems like we can rule out the beggar being skillful at reading bumps in a person’s pants. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/75 "2010-09-23T20:10:13Z")
> [@FuzzyOgre](#): > > …Certainly. Someone said she cant a prodigy if shes a beggar, but thats not true. Its also a mistake to assume she has no education. She could very well be versed in statistics, and all she has to do is form a rough idea of where the bell curve is for pocket change. Its probably no harder than counting cards at blackjack. > > I wouldnt be surprised if she has it refined to under 1 in 20. It seems logical that you might need different spreads for men and women, but thats no biggy. > > That actually sounds like an interesting experiment. I think **Tripolar** may have hit the nail on the head about how she could be playing the odds without doing any calculations. It may be that she’s been doing this in that paticular lot long enough that she knows from memory the most typical amounts. She may even have it down to gender and what store they just came from. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/76 "2010-09-23T20:16:23Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Did the OP say where she retrived her change from? One location? Multiple locations? Purse, pocket, car console? Details would help. > > Also is it possible beggar lady blurted out an indistinct answer? > > “Let me guess how much change you have.” > “Okay.” > “Brefeshtyfrea cents.” > “Eighty-three cents.” > “Yep, that’s what I said, eighty-three cents!” Quite possibly the best answer so far. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/77 "2010-09-23T20:21:36Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Oh, and you “count the change” people are way off. I swipe. (The card, I mean–not the merchandise.) _Always_? Then why was there change in your pocket? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/78 "2010-09-23T20:26:58Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > She didn’t have me do any math trick. She only said if she could guess how much I had in change, would I give it to her, and barely gave me time to nod before she said the amount. > > But when I was with my friend she phrased it a bit differently. > > I may indeed be leaving out something important. I tend to remember odd things, like her taking the drink from the discarded cup (but then, it could have been her cup, that she left there earlier…who knows?) > > If it was cold reading, she did a good job, both times. If it was a guess, again, I think that’s pretty lucky to get it three times (twice with me, once with my friend). Could be she misses a lot. > > But if street magicians do this, I’m really curious. I’m probably not curious enough to buy the trick, though. Unless it costs exactly 17 cents. Do you recall exactly how she phrased it differently for your friend? Exactly how did she phrase it for you? Maybe that cup has magic guessing juice in it! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/79 "2010-09-23T20:51:27Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > > [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > > > Oh, and you “count the change” people are way off. I swipe. (The card, I mean–not the merchandise.) > > _Always_? Then why was there change in your pocket? I think she meant she always pays for groceries with a card. I use my debit card on about 95% of things I buy, especially bigish purchases like the week’s groceries, but I still usually have some change in my wallet. I’m not buying this “normal amount of change” thing, either. Most women have a change purse or compartment in their purse/wallet. It doesn’t get emptied out every evening, it accumulates randomly. You don’t usually go into a store with just bills and come out with change. I just checked mine (having no idea whatsoever how much change I had) and I’ve got $1.67 in coins: 5 quarters, 4 dimes, 2 pennies. Someone on the last page did a little “predictable amounts” breakdown, and I’d guess that particular change combo would be “unlikely”. As for communication with a clerk, I’m not seeing that, either. When I pay for something with cash, they usually hand me back bills with the change stacked on top. I dump the change into the coin compartment of my wallet to mingle with whatever change I already have in there; there is no way for the clerk to see/count it without being very obvious about it. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690/80 "2010-09-23T21:00:14Z")
I think we should get some statistical data. Someone set up a poll to see how much change the average person has on them. Maybe do it 0-5, 6-10 etc to start, then take the most popular group and break it down to 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 cents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lady-beggar-how-did-she-do-this/554690.md?page=5)