# The Lake ate two more people yesterday... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 6, 2010, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384 "2010-08-06T10:56:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/1 "2010-08-06T10:56:39Z")
Lake Superior, that is. Teenagers, both of them. I was having a beer with my brother and his wife when their daughter - who works as a life guard - called and said 5 people drowned. As it turned out, it was only 2, bringing the toll in the past month to 3 people drowned in my one little town on the lake. Drownings around here are almost always tourists. The locals know to stay away from that one beach, and we know to not get into the water at that other beach when there are huge waves. Despite large signs telling people about the hazards of swimming in these areas, people still get in the water. Add in that the Lake temperature is crazy warm this year - pushing 70 degrees which is unheard of - and there are lots of people in the water who normally wouldn’t get near it. Sooo… if you’re planning a vacation near water… please be careful. Don’t just walk past the signs warning you not to swim at that beach. Look at that memorial - it’s there because almost every year, someone drowns here. Even if there’s not a sign, don’t get into the water if it’s rough or you’re not a good swimmer. There are plenty of safe beaches, protected harbors, places with lifeguards. Ask around, find of of them. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/2 "2010-08-06T11:36:07Z")
Man. Our Great Lakes can turn nasty in a heartbeat, can’t they? Now I’m wondering if Lake Michigan ever gave up the body of that little girl that **Qadgop** tried to save, and nearly found himself in the same situation. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/3 "2010-08-06T11:38:03Z")
Not good. These lakes are obviously big enough to have significant surf and wave effects? ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/4 "2010-08-06T12:38:10Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Not good. These lakes are obviously big enough to have significant surf and wave effects? Not as much as the ocean, but plenty enough to cause problems. One of the beaches where people drown every year has a significant undertow. We can also get large waves on windy days just about everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/5 "2010-08-06T12:39:01Z")
Are many of these unsafe beaches natural or man-made? I live very near a sizable lake which has a man-made beach replete with the requisite sand, lifeguard chairs, picnic area, etc. If the beaches are man-made, why on Earth have them in parts of the Great Lakes where its so unsafe to swim? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/6 "2010-08-06T13:19:34Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Not good. These lakes are obviously big enough to have significant surf and wave effects? In _[The Perfect Storm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Perfect_Storm)_, author Sebastian Junger spends several pages talking about how large waves are generated at sea. Wikipedia says [five factors](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_waves#Wave_formation) influence the formation of ocean waves, but Junger focuses on three: [wind] _speed_, _duration_ (of wind blow), and “fetch.” Fetch is the distance of open water the wind has blown across. (The other two factors Wikipedia mentions are _width_ of the area fetch blows across, which Junger probably considered part of fetch, and water _depth_.) _Fetch_ is the relevant factor, since wind speed and duration over the Great Lakes could be theoretically equal to the ocean, and certainly strong enough to overcome any swimmer. Are the Great Lakes long enough for the wind speed and duration to push enough water up to form really big waves? The answer is yes. The lakes are pretty huge and the waves get to be pretty spectacular – just ask the [_Edmund Fitzgerald_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Edmund_Fitzgerald). The loss of the _Fitz_ – possibly due to a [rogue wave](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave_%28oceanography%29) – points out another danger. Waves can get into synchronicity and several peaks can pile up, forming an unexpectedly huge wave , much larger than the rest of waves in a particular [sea state](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_state). Although they were long assumed to be figments of sailors’ imagination, recent research has confirmed that not only do rogue waves exist, they are much more common than mathematical probability theory would predict, and occur all around the world many times a year. The significance for the Great Lakes is that the conditions (speed, duration, fetch) can already produce fatal waves, but an occasional freak wave twice the size (or more) of those already-fatal waves might occur. And rogues can “appear without warning in mid-ocean, against the prevailing current and wave direction, and often in perfectly clear weather.” Wear your life jackets. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/7 "2010-08-06T13:42:14Z")
Thanks Sailboat, that was interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/8 "2010-08-06T14:26:53Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Not good. These lakes are obviously big enough to have significant surf and wave effects? A guy I used to climb with is a surfer. He has surfed on [Lake Huron](http://media.photobucket.com/image/surfing%20lake%20huron/joshcannonball/PB050112.jpg) (that’s not him, but you can see what the surfing can be like). The waves can be similar on [Lake Michigan](http://logosecho.home.mindspring.com/LakeSurf2s.jpg) in the right weather. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/9 "2010-08-06T14:49:51Z")
If you’re not familiar with the Great Lakes, they really don’t act like lakes at all. They’re freshwater seas. They aren’t called “Great” for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/10 "2010-08-06T14:53:12Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Are many of these unsafe beaches natural or man-made? I live very near a sizable lake which has a man-made beach replete with the requisite sand, lifeguard chairs, picnic area, etc. If the beaches are man-made, why on Earth have them in parts of the Great Lakes where its so unsafe to swim? No, there are no man-made beaches around here. No need - we have hundreds of miles of pristine beautiful natural beaches. > [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > > > Not good. These lakes are obviously big enough to have significant surf and wave effects? > > A guy I used to climb with is a surfer. He has surfed on [Lake Huron](http://media.photobucket.com/image/surfing%20lake%20huron/joshcannonball/PB050112.jpg) (that’s not him, but you can see what the surfing can be like). The waves can be similar on [Lake Michigan](http://logosecho.home.mindspring.com/LakeSurf2s.jpg) in the right weather. Superior definitely looks like that as well. Surfing is getting to be pretty popular around here. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/11 "2010-08-06T15:12:07Z")
I assume the third you mention was the state worker from WI? It wasn’t reported here that that area is an unsafe place to swim. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/12 "2010-08-06T15:53:39Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > I assume the third you mention was the state worker from WI? It wasn’t reported here that that area is an unsafe place to swim. Yup, that’s the guy. It’s a weird area, on one side of the main city beach. The rest of the beach is fine to swim in, no problems at all. But this one area has a few tempting-looking rocks that look like they’re in swimmable distance, and indeed they are, most days. But every year or two, a few people die there, because in the right conditions there’s a bad undertow. There are HUGE signs warning people of this, but still, people get in the water. The city just in the past week or so has finally decided to patrol the area and will have lifeguards warning people not to get in the water. There is no lifeguard at the beach because in reality, there really should be no swimming there. Just walk 5 minutes down the beach and swim THERE, it’s much safer. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/13 "2010-08-06T17:54:07Z")
Just read that two more people drowned yesterday at a beach 40 miles away. Once again, tourists. \ ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/14 "2010-08-06T18:04:55Z")
Death on [Lake Michigan](http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/2572456,swimmers-missing-lake-michigan-080610.article) this morning, too. > [@](#): > > Two men and two women out for sail in Lake Michigan early Friday went for a swim without anchoring their boat, leading to the drowning of one man, the continued search for the other and the dramatic rescue of women who managed to tread water for five hours, police said. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/15 "2010-08-06T19:23:45Z")
the east sides of those lakes are safer somewhat because of the wind generally coming into the shore. also a big risk on those lakes is undertow. learning how to float and get out of undertow are lifesaving skills. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/16 "2010-08-06T19:53:55Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > > > Not good. These lakes are obviously big enough to have significant surf and wave effects? > > A guy I used to climb with is a surfer. He has surfed on [Lake Huron](http://media.photobucket.com/image/surfing%20lake%20huron/joshcannonball/PB050112.jpg) (that’s not him, but you can see what the surfing can be like). The waves can be similar on [Lake Michigan](http://logosecho.home.mindspring.com/LakeSurf2s.jpg) in the right weather. Those photos do look like ocean waves on a rough day at the beach, but I’ve swum in that sort of surf. Is it the waves, or the lack of experience on the part of the swimmers? ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/17 "2010-08-06T20:33:18Z")
Some guy died in The Wisconsin near us a week ago. It’s at high levels and one person in a group of canoers decided to swim. The river gets people traveling through hear every year. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/18 "2010-08-06T20:47:40Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Man. Our Great Lakes can turn nasty in a heartbeat, can’t they? > > Now I’m wondering if Lake Michigan ever gave up the body of that little girl that **Qadgop** tried to save, and nearly found himself in the same situation. No body yet. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/19 "2010-08-06T21:47:06Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Not good. These lakes are obviously big enough to have significant surf and wave effects? [I’d](http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.796234,-86.648808&spn=0.89741,1.571045&t=h&z=10&layer=c&cbll=48.790233,-87.168593&panoid=Mov3cMuxgd5Ek5qPfIMdUg&cbp=12,185.88,,0,10.98) [say](http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=47.793564,-84.900342&spn=0.91889,1.571045&t=h&z=10&layer=c&cbll=47.793564,-84.900342&panoid=jhTlBYrSHm9hDFSqkwdybg&cbp=12,223.92,,0,20.35) [so.](http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=44.630795,-81.270332&spn=0.243348,0.392761&t=h&z=12&layer=c&cbll=44.630672,-81.270419&panoid=ckqRGBfjLhYwQSoN4i6cqQ&cbp=12,277.06,,0,2.48) [🙂](http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&t=h&layer=c&cbll=45.81517,-84.728182&panoid=FVNzKAX25IXasIMLCEj1ow&cbp=12,275.29,,0,20.28&ll=45.81517,-84.728182&spn=0.953318,1.571045&z=10) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384/20 "2010-08-07T10:05:08Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > the east sides of those lakes are safer somewhat because of the wind generally coming into the shore. > > also a big risk on those lakes is undertow. > > learning how to float and get out of undertow are lifesaving skills. Are these lakes fresh water or a bit salty? Because floating and treading water is a lot easier in salt water which may lead people to overestimate their swimming abilities when swimming in a fresh water lake. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lake-ate-two-more-people-yesterday/549384.md?page=2)