According to the article linked in the OP, the Lakota who are agitating for an independent nation don’t represent the Lokota people or the Lakota government.
edit: redundant link
If you think Bolivia will risk its planes flying over U.S. airspace without clear permission from the U.S. to do so, I’ll throw in some oceanfront property in North Dakota.
I used to work with a 50 year old Lakota who was a Vice President in a Fortune 100 sized company. Last I checked the U.S. was not denying the Lakota life past the age of 44, material sustainence or employment. Had a Lakota college intern work for me one year - his mother (a Lakota) was an attorney at a big Twin Cities law firm.
That isn’t to say life for the Lakota is all high profile jobs - there is deep poverty on many reservations. Alcoholism. Education and health care concerns. Not sure how secession with the U.S. is going to solve their deep poverty problem. Not that much different than what you see among poor urban Blacks.
There is nothing in that press release to suggest that this group has any standing with, or represents any significant number of Lakota tribal members.
As it stands, it appears no more than a publicity stunt.
I’m sure Hugo Chavez will have a little fun with it though.
Aint’ gonna happen. If it gets them better recognition, then good for them. But they can “declare independence” and the US government can just ignore them. If they start shooting to defend their borders, they’ll get shot back at. Or people will just stay away.
I have great sympathy for how the Indians were treated and I think it was terrible how the US cheated them out of their land. But that’s history now, and it’s time to move on. We need to rethink the whole reservation system and whether that even makes sense in the 21st century.
No, sorry. I’ve only seen pictures. Like this one, winding its way through the desolation, leading eventually to Betty and Katie’s place. (Behind them. The dirt colored semi-flat thing.)
My BIL is Lakota. I’m pretty ignorant about the specifics of the Lakota, but I understand they are comprised of seven “subtribes” and are part of the Sioux Nation (but don’t call them Sioux).
I think that our Indian policies are broken and we need to modernize our relations. I think we owe them something because of having broken their societies up in the past, but the current system of dependency is unpalatable.
I wish I could come up with a fair solution, but it’s very complicated. I certainly wouldn’t blame any tribe for wanting to secede; I don’t have any real problem with Indians becoming self-determinant. I just don’t know how to get it done right. Separate countries might not be the way to go in that many folks are very proud to be US citizens and want to keep it that way. How do you separate that stuff out?
The worst of it is when people tell anecdotes about Indians who left the reservation and made good as bank presidents and movie moguls or whatever. Or tell fond stories about visiting the reservations in their childhoods and having fun parties with their little Indian friends. A select few might have homes decent enough to invite friends, but most are little more than hovels, and the poverty is astounding. Anyone can Google this information and see for himself.
AGAIN!
HAve you ever been to a Lakota reservation?
AGAIN!. Jesus.
If the Lakota are lucky, this will be quietly ignored and the BIA will keep doing its thing like always.
If the Lakota are unlucky, the Feds will respond with a huge screwjob of a mess and put the very notion of tribal sovereignty under review. This will not end well for the Lakota or anyone else who belongs to a Federally-recognized tribe.
In no case will the Lakota end up with their own country in any semi-realistic sense of the term.
I do know you’re right, but it’s so fucking unfair. Practically ALL the treaty breaking has been from the US, not from the tribes.
And on preview, I think Derleth is right as well.
So, the plan is:
Step 1: Secede
Step 2: ???
Step 3: 30 years higher life expectancy, one-fifth the infant mortality, one-ninth the TB, more wealth for all, full employment, 60% lower teen suicide, and the Lakota language preserved… and independent nation status recognised by all the world.
Watch out for that second step, it’s a doozy. :dubious:
AGAIN!
You complain about my ‘little kiddie anecdotes’ yet you’ve never been there and keep showing pictures. PICTURES! For the love of Pete, you know how stupid you sound?
Jeezus!
No matter how you try to denegrate my ‘kiddie’ experiences and my little kiddie friends, the fact is that my experiences are 10000x+ more experience and knowledge than you have, no matter how much you try to denigrate it.
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The problem the Lakota have is similar to what the non-Lakota have in ND and SD. The fact is that unless you leave the state or you have some pre-existing ‘career’ (like daddies business) YOU WILL BE POOR! Drive through towns like Amidon ND or Scranton ND sometime. It has people in it that have not moved away. These people are POOR! They live in old homes that look in bad shape and the infrastructure SUCKS.
There is nothing to do…there is no industry and I mean NO industry at all to speak of. You lose your shit-pay job and you have to travel a long ways for another one. I’ve known guys supporting their family driving 60 miles for a near minimum wage job. I’ve seen stats that show that over half the young people leave the state to live (I was one).
Guess what…it’s the same for the Lakota. If they stay on the reservation, it all applies. Many Lakota leave the reservation. Minneapolis and Denver are popular destinations.
Independence is not going to change this. You think these plains states don’t try to attract industry? Why are the Lakota going to be more successful?
It’s tough there man. The area is dying and has been for about 50 years.
Well, what would happen if I declared independence from the United States, and declared my 5 acre lot a sovreign nation? Not a thing. Nothing will be done. This isn’t the Lakota declaring independence, it’s a couple of guys with a website.
I don’t know why you and I have to be enemies, or why you hurl insults at me for defending an oppressed people. We seem to agree that their lot is shot, so why can’t we get along? I’m just saying that it isn’t just being in the Dakotas that is the problem. Appalachian poverty is every bit as bad outside the Cherokee reservation as it is inside, and yet Appalachian destinations absolutely thrive with success, from Blowing Rock to Dollywood to Asheville. The problem isn’t between you and me. The problem is a long history of passive-aggressive hostility directed at Indian tribes who do not have enough political clout to make a difference in Washington, DC.
Wouldn’t you be in violation of the law in most states? Isn’t secession illegal practically everywhere?
I don’t know if succession is illegal per se, but in anycase I doubt they come after you until you actually break some other law of your former state (not paying taxes, for example).
So I guess if these guys really want to press the issue, the next step would be to break some US law (drug production springs to mind, as it would certainly decrease the poverty rate and employe a few of their fellows) and dare the gov’t to come after them. Which I assume would lead either to the arrest of the Indians in question or a Ruby Ridge type situation depending on how far they wanted to take it.
Also, didn’t a few indian groups already try this during the 60’s and 70’s?
You don’t have treaties over one hundred years old granting you Sovereignity within your lands either, so your point is moot.
Neither do a couple of guys with a website. If it was the Lakota gov’t making this move then it would be a different situation.
What would be different about it? The BIA would just recognize a new puppet master. Like Indian Hater Jackson did with Chief Ross.