# The lance strongarm transgender bathroom and poly marriage extravaganza thread! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 5, 2016, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244 "2016-04-05T11:31:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/321 "2016-04-14T18:59:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sure they matter to me. My wife’s feelings about any and everything matter to me. That’s why we would talk about it so I could see how I could help, as well as understand the root of her feelings. Are you open to the possibility that her feelings about her privacy are all that matter and that you should accept them without question or “understanding” them first? Would you do the same with a total stranger? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/322 "2016-04-14T19:02:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sometimes people really don’t have answers ready. Why is “I don’t know” such a problem? > > I don’t understand at all the “feelings don’t matter to me” stuff. What would you do differently about these feelings that shows they matter? How does wanting to ask about them and dig mean that they don’t matter? If they didn’t matter, I wouldn’t even ask at all- I wouldn’t care. “Honey, there’s some man in the restroom and I don’t like it and I think it’s wrong. Can you please do something?” “I would have to research it and try to understand your feelings first.” That’s the conversation I imagine you having. I think you’re dodging the simple fact that people have feelings about privacy and they may not always be rational and they may not always match yours but maybe they should prevail anyway because it’s their situation, not yours. If you don’t care about who you use a bathroom with, that’s fine, but when others care, maybe you should give that more weight. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/323 "2016-04-14T19:05:53Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Are you open to the possibility that her feelings about her privacy are all that matter and that you should accept them without question or “understanding” them first? Would you do the same with a total stranger? Her feelings about everything, not just privacy, matter to me. I don’t even know what it means to accept feelings “without question”. If accepting feelings just means acknowledging them, then yes. Is that it? What does it mean to you to accept feelings without question? What does it mean to you for feelings to matter? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/324 "2016-04-14T19:09:04Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > “Honey, there’s some man in the restroom and I don’t like it and I think it’s wrong. Can you please do something?” > > “I would have to research it and try to understand your feelings first.” > > That’s the conversation I imagine you having. I think you’re dodging the simple fact that people have feelings about privacy and they may not always be rational and they may not always match yours but maybe they should prevail anyway because it’s their situation, not yours. If you don’t care about who you use a bathroom with, that’s fine, but when others care, maybe you should give that more weight. I might ask if she’s sure it was a man, and if he was doing anything weird. Considering LHOD’s reasons, I might alert the establishment or authorities. What would you do? Is there one answer that you expect that covers all the variables? I’m answering your questions, so can you answer mine? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/325 "2016-04-14T19:09:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Her feelings about everything, not just privacy, matter to me. I don’t even know what it means to accept feelings “without question”. If accepting feelings just means acknowledging them, then yes. Is that it? > > What does it mean to you to accept feelings without question? What does it mean to you for feelings to matter? It means you say “you’re right, honey, I shall ask that man to leave forthwith.” You don’t ask any more questions or do any research or try to get to the heart of her feelings or whatever. You say she’s right because she has a right to those feelings, and as long as you have no reason to believe she’s motivated by something like hatred or bigotry, you don’t disagree or reserve judgement. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/326 "2016-04-14T19:11:26Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > It means you say “you’re right, honey, I shall ask that man to leave forthwith.” You don’t ask any more questions or do any research or try to get to the heart of her feelings or whatever. You say she’s right because she has a right to those feelings, and as long as you have no reason to believe she’s motivated by something like hatred or bigotry, you don’t disagree or reserve judgement. So that’s your answer. I think my answer acknowledges and respects her feelings. Why is there only one answer here that you find acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/327 "2016-04-14T19:15:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So that’s your answer. I think my answer acknowledges and respects her feelings. Why is there only one answer here that you find acceptable? Any answer that substitutes YOUR feelings, judgement or need for further information about HER experience in the lady’s room probably doesn’t respect her feelings. You weren’t even there. Either you support the right of someone to feel the desire to be away from people of other genders in the restroom, or you don’t. There’s not a middle ground. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/328 "2016-04-14T19:19:10Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Any answer that substitutes YOUR feelings, judgement or need for further information about HER experience in the lady’s room probably doesn’t respect her feelings. You weren’t even there. Either you support the right of someone to feel the desire to be away from people of other genders in the restroom, or you don’t. There’s not a middle ground. I support her right to feel anything she chooses. And I disagree that asking a question doesn’t respect her feelings. It’s possible to respect someone’s feelings and still not do exactly what they want. Sometimes I might be insensitive by mistake, and my wife might want me to go jump in a lake. I’ll apologize, and respect her right to feel that way and the feeling itself, but I probably won’t jump in a lake. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/329 "2016-04-14T19:25:23Z")
It seems like this has gone from a discussion about bathrooms and trans people to couples counseling. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/330 "2016-04-14T19:28:23Z")
I agree. I think this is bizarre. If my wife complained to me about a man in the women’s room, the last thing I would do is interrogate her at length in order to try to understand the roots of her feelings. And as for practical assistance, she can more than take care of herself in this area. Call security or something. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/331 "2016-04-14T19:30:32Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I agree. I think this is bizarre. If my wife complained to me about a man in the women’s room, the last thing I would do is interrogate her at length in order to try to understand the roots of her feelings. > > And as for practical assistance, she can more than take care of herself in this area. Call security or something. Me too. I might ask a cursory question or two at first to see if the situation is dangerous, but I’d save any questions about feelings and roots for later. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/332 "2016-04-14T19:31:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It seems like this has gone from a discussion about bathrooms and trans people to couples counseling. I was just thinking that I should clarify that I’m not talking about your relationship with your wife. I used it as a hypothetical. Maybe it was the wrong idea. Switch to a total stranger instead - a woman you don’t know says there’s a man in the lady’s room and she is upset about it and wants to know what you think. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/333 "2016-04-14T19:31:49Z")
I do love my wife and I do respect her feelings. That doesn’t mean I’m going to do everything she asks me to. I’m certainly never going into the ladies’ room to tell someone else that he or she needs to leave, especially if that wish on my wife’s part is based in some kind of prejudice or bigotry. I would tell my wife that if she can’t get over that feeling, then she needs to wait, or find a different restroom. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/334 "2016-04-14T19:33:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Me too. I might ask a cursory question or two at first to see if the situation is dangerous, but I’d save any questions about feelings and roots for later. Should we let men go in women’s rooms and vice versa - just scrap the gendered restrooms and go unisex - or not? Just pick one. There’s no middle ground. If one man decides he wants to go in the lady’s room, then the choice is forced on all the women, and vice versa. If you just don’t care, say that then. But others may still care. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/335 "2016-04-14T19:35:23Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Should we let men go in women’s rooms and vice versa - just scrap the gendered restrooms and go unisex - or not? Just pick one. I believe we should have a law that makes YOU, specifically, have to shit in your own hat wherever you go. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/336 "2016-04-14T19:36:07Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I was just thinking that I should clarify that I’m not talking about your relationship with your wife. I used it as a hypothetical. Maybe it was the wrong idea. Switch to a total stranger instead - a woman you don’t know says there’s a man in the lady’s room and she is upset about it and wants to know what you think. I’d point her to the authorities or establishment, or if she was incoherent I would call 911. I’m probably not going to risk falling for a robbery trap, so it’s very unlikely that I’d start a confrontation based on nothing more than the word of a stranger (barring claims of rape of something). If she was bleeding or injured, or said she was assaulted, that would be different, and I would call 911 and consider a confrontation, depending on the circumstances and if anyone was still in danger. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/337 "2016-04-14T19:37:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I would tell my wife that if she can’t get over that feeling, then she needs to wait, or find a different restroom. I think the heart of the question is “Would you tell her that if the person in the restroom was a gender-typical man simply going to the bathroom and not bothering anyone?” ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/338 "2016-04-14T19:38:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I do love my wife and I do respect her feelings. That doesn’t mean I’m going to do everything she asks me to. > > I’m certainly never going into the ladies’ room to tell someone else that he or she needs to leave, especially if that wish on my wife’s part is based in some kind of prejudice or bigotry. > > I would tell my wife that if she can’t get over that feeling, then she needs to wait, or find a different restroom. I find it astounding that you would make that choice (bigotry exception aside). But at least you gave a straight answer. So I guess you would teach children that it doesn’t matter which restroom they use too? And if someone suggested getting rid of gendered restrooms and having just one, you’d agree? (Not sure how you could possibly say no to either of those and reconcile it with the above). Let me push you a step further - there’s a man in the locker room with your wife. She was naked. He saw her naked. He was naked too. She saw that he was a male and not a transgender. She says she was uncomfortable. What would you tell her? Or better yet, you manage a health club and a customer says that to you. Do you tell her to just get over it? Do you build a single, unisex locker and shower room? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/339 "2016-04-14T19:40:14Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Should we let men go in women’s rooms and vice versa - just scrap the gendered restrooms and go unisex - or not? Just pick one. > > There’s no middle ground. If one man decides he wants to go in the lady’s room, then the choice is forced on all the women, and vice versa. If you just don’t care, say that then. But others may still care. Sure there’s a middle ground - continue as we are, plus eliminating any anti trans discrimination. That’s probably what’s going to happen in the medium term. I don’t think men should go into the ladies room barring unusual circumstances. I think behaving pervy is wrong. But there’s no way to eliminate the possibility of pervs, and I don’t see a solution that does a better job of minimizing perving, so I’m inclined to continue as we are. Sorry that I don’t see it in black and white like you do. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/340 "2016-04-14T19:43:06Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I find it astounding that you would make that choice (bigotry exception aside). But at least you gave a straight answer. > > So I guess you would teach children that it doesn’t matter which restroom they use too? And if someone suggested getting rid of gendered restrooms and having just one, you’d agree? (Not sure how you could possibly say no to either of those and reconcile it with the above). > > Let me push you a step further - there’s a man in the locker room with your wife. She was naked. He saw her naked. He was naked too. She saw that he was a male and not a transgender. She says she was uncomfortable. What would you tell her? > > Or better yet, you manage a health club and a customer says that to you. Do you tell her to just get over it? Do you build a single, unisex locker and shower room? I would probably call the authorities, since that sounds like lewd behavior. That fits nearly into the perv reason from LHOD’s list. If there’s another explanation, I can’t think of one, unless my wife is just incorrect about the person’s gender identity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244.md?page=18)