# The lance strongarm transgender bathroom and poly marriage extravaganza thread! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 5, 2016, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244 "2016-04-05T11:31:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/461 "2016-04-19T11:21:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Earlier you accused me of this belief, but you were wrong. Are you sure you haven’t misinterpreted the arguments of other posters too? Because I can’t recall anyone specifically challenging or denying that most people seem to prefer gendered restrooms. Wow. Read the last 20 or 30 messages in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/462 "2016-04-19T11:24:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Harm is enough, but claims of harm alone are not. Claims of harm must be supported by evidence, in my opinion, to actually consist of harm. No matter what some white people claimed, they weren’t harmed by having to share a bathroom with black people. Evidence is irrelevant to the definition of harm. This is about whether someone can claim harm from invasion of gender privacy alone. I could say that you are no harmed if I hang out in your bathroom in your home, but I bet you’d say you were harmed. Or maybe not - but you’d still want me to leave even if I said you weren’t harmed so I should be able to stay. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/463 "2016-04-19T11:31:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If you aren’t the spokesman, then stop speaking about it and let’s hear from the women themselves that you claim are out there with this opinion. If it is a fact, they will talk. No. I can assert that a majority of women in the U.S. prefer to use a women’s room without men in it. It is fucking absurd to demand proof of that. It’s like demanding proof that most people don’t like really loud noises or the smell of garbage. It’s a simple observation of our culture. Do you really believe that if we suddenly converted all public restrooms to unisex (without other changes such as additional privacy inside them) nobody in this country would care? Stop the nonsense. By the way, every woman on this thread has backed up my point by saying they would ask a man why he was in the women’s room. If they didn’t care that he was there, they’d leave him alone to do his business, wouldn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/464 "2016-04-19T11:32:33Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Wow. > > Read the last 20 or 30 messages in this thread. P.S. To be precise, many are playing a stupid game where they don’t deny it but say they need to see a poll or whatever to prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/465 "2016-04-19T11:55:08Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > No. I can assert that a majority of women in the U.S. prefer to use a women’s room without men in it. It is fucking absurd to demand proof of that. It’s like demanding proof that most people don’t like really loud noises or the smell of garbage. It’s a simple observation of our culture. > > Do you really believe that if we suddenly converted all public restrooms to unisex (without other changes such as additional privacy inside them) nobody in this country would care? > > Stop the nonsense. > > By the way, every woman on this thread has backed up my point by saying they would ask a man why he was in the women’s room. If they didn’t care that he was there, they’d leave him alone to do his business, wouldn’t they? You can assert all you want, but you have yet to back it up, loud bluster and righteous indignation aside. It’s your claim-_you_ back it up, bucky. As far as every woman responding backing up your point, that is utter nonsense. I seem to recall posts telling you you are blowing it out of proportion, and posts saying women can speak for themselves, but where are the posts saying essentially “You sure got _that_ right.” Every woman in this thread has backed up your point? _ **Bullshit.** _ ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/466 "2016-04-19T11:58:20Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > P.S. To be precise, many are playing a stupid game where they don’t deny it but say they need to see a poll or whatever to prove it. Why don’t you quit hiding behind the supposed opinions of millions of women you can’t seem to find cites for, and just state your own opinions from here on in? Even though you would have to actually take personal responsibility for the crap you post, wouldn’t that be so much easier in the long run? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/467 "2016-04-19T12:07:39Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Wow. > > Read the last 20 or 30 messages in this thread. I went back more than 30 posts, and I didn’t see any such assertions. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/468 "2016-04-19T12:15:30Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > By the way, every woman on this thread has backed up my point by saying they would ask a man why he was in the women’s room. If they didn’t care that he was there, they’d leave him alone to do his business, wouldn’t they? This: > [@WhyNot](#): > > I’ve been in an untold number of threads here and on Facebook about this issue, and just last week it occurred to me that I was arguing against a bunch of men in every single one. > > Women may prefer that men not be in the women’s room. We might give him a glance or ask if he’s lost. But I’ve seen only one woman who believes that discrimination laws would keep men out of the restroom, and exactly zero who feel very strongly about it. > > We’re not afraid. We’re beginning to wonder what the hell is going on in men’s rooms that y’all are so fearful of rape and penises, though. is not someone backing up your point. This is someone telling you that you are blowing it out of proportion and overreactiing. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/469 "2016-04-19T12:29:15Z")
Wait, they’re backing up your point by demanding proof of your claims, because they are afraid to agree with you outright? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/470 "2016-04-19T12:32:26Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > By the way, every woman on this thread has backed up my point by saying they would ask a man why he was in the women’s room. If they didn’t care that he was there, they’d leave him alone to do his business, wouldn’t they? It’s perfectly possible to be entirely okay with a person being in a room, and still notice that their presence is unusual. In my case, I would wonder if he needed assistance, or if he entered the wrong room by mistake, which might cause him some embarrassment - because the norm is for him not to be in this room, not because I object to him being in this room. If I saw a child alone in a bar, I would probably ask them if they were okay or needed help, because children are not usually alone in a bar. And if the kid said, “I’m fine, my mom’s in the office picking up her paycheck and then we’re going for ice cream,” I’d say, “Oh, okay, have a good day!” and go on about my business. I don’t care if a child is in a bar, but I would notice the situation as outside the norm and wonder if it indicated some problem for the child. If men were routinely in the same bathroom I use, it would no longer be unusual, and I wouldn’t wonder or ask why they were there. I’d assume they were there to use the facilities. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/471 "2016-04-19T12:48:03Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > By the way, every woman on this thread has backed up my point by saying they would ask a man why he was in the women’s room. If they didn’t care that he was there, they’d leave him alone to do his business, wouldn’t they? Hellooooo! Is this thing on? I said I _wouldn’t_ ask a man why he was in the ladies’ room and would assume he had some noncreepy reason for being there. I knew it. I’m in Coventry, aren’t I… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/472 "2016-04-19T13:00:16Z")
I don’t want violent or creepy people in the bathroom. _People_. I don’t care what gender or sexual orientation they have. Yeah, I’d probably look twice at a man in the women’s bathroom, and maybe even ask if they needed something, but a transwoman isn’t a man, so that issue is moot. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/473 "2016-04-19T13:05:14Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > I don’t want violent or creepy people in the bathroom. _People_. I don’t care what gender or sexual orientation they have. > > Yeah, I’d probably look twice at a man in the women’s bathroom, and maybe even ask if they needed something, but a transwoman isn’t a man, so that issue is moot. Ivory, Ivory, Ivory…we’re not supposed to be talking about transwomen. lance says, and it’s his thread (that he didn’t start) with his name on it and everything. Woah! Watch out!!! Step to the left, I think that goalpost is about to move again… ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/474 "2016-04-19T13:08:09Z")
> [@Azeotrope](#): > > Hellooooo! Is this thing on? I said I _wouldn’t_ ask a man why he was in the ladies’ room and would assume he had some noncreepy reason for being there. > > I knew it. I’m in Coventry, aren’t I… ☹ Sorry, but since you have not produced the notarized copy of the results of your genital evaluation Lance cannot count you as being a female type person for the purpose of restroom opinions. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/475 "2016-04-19T13:12:48Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Ivory, Ivory, Ivory…we’re not supposed to be talking about transwomen. lance says, and it’s his thread (that he didn’t start) with his name on it and everything. > > Woah! Watch out!!! Step to the left, I think that goalpost is about to move again… Oh, darn. It must be my female brain (which apparently isn’t qualified to allow me to speak for myself) acting up again. Silly me. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/476 "2016-04-19T13:19:40Z")
> [@Azeotrope](#): > > Hellooooo! Is this thing on? I said I _wouldn’t_ ask a man why he was in the ladies’ room and would assume he had some noncreepy reason for being there. > > I knew it. I’m in Coventry, aren’t I… ☹ Nah, or if you are, it’s only on the side of **lance**. He’s ignoring every single woman in the thread. Hey, would “gets ignored by sexist assholes” count as proof of femaleness? Much quicker than those pesky psychiatric evaluations! ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/477 "2016-04-19T13:37:24Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Why are you, one woman, discussing the comfort of all other women? > > We don’t need to be women to know that many women would react differently from you. Many would freak out at the sight of a man in the women’s room - especially one who said he wasn’t lost and that she should mind her own business as he does his. It’s nice that you would just laugh if he was “trying to get off,” but many women wouldn’t, nor would any parent of a young daughter. And how would you even know if they are transgender? Would you go up to someone and say “excuse me, are you transgender?” > > Over and over I get comments like this that ignore the point. Sure, you may not care who uses a restroom with you, but millions do. If they didn’t, we wouldn’t still have gendered restrooms and we wouldn’t still be teaching our children to use the “right” one. > > All I am asking is if their feelings matter or should we try to get rid of gendered restrooms entirely and force millions of people to do something that, right or wrong, they are very uncomfortable doing. That goes for locker rooms too. And that question doesn’t even consider the transgender issue. I repeat - I’m not even considering transgender in this discussion, I’m just trying to get people to admit that bathroom and locker room politics is not so incredibly easy or simple as they pretend it is. > > I have yet to get a straight answer. Why do I _need_ to know if they are transgender? I don’t care! If more people would just mind their own business this world would be a much nicer place, IMO. Sexual assault and child molestation are already illegal; if someone is caught doing this, be they male, female or in transition, they go to jail. What that all has to do with the right to have a place to pee I just don’t see. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/478 "2016-04-19T13:49:09Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Nah, or if you are, it’s only on the side of **lance**. He’s ignoring every single woman in the thread. > Hey, would “gets ignored by sexist assholes” count as proof of femaleness? Much quicker than those pesky psychiatric evaluations! Why would they listen to us, after all? They already know what we think and how we act better than we do. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/479 "2016-04-19T13:53:10Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > But you WOULD ask him why he is there. > > You DO care. You DO think he’s out of place. If you didn’t, you’d just leave him alone like you leave other women in the restroom alone. > > Do you believe that most women would ignore a man in the women’s room? Just leave him to go about his business without caring that he is there at all? > > I don’t. > > I’m simply making an observation about customary social norms. I think my observation is accurate. Maybe women wouldn’t freak out as much as in the past, but it’s safe to say most women (and most men) don’t want unisex bathrooms or men using the women’s room, making them de facto unisex bathrooms. And I don’t think that’s an unreasonable observation that requires evidence. I’m old enough that customary social norms might have their effects on me, but that doesn’t mean that I won’t question them and try to change my automatic reactions if I think they need changing. When I was a kid black women were not allowed to use the same public bathrooms as I did in a lot of places, and I’m very happy that that is no longer the case. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244/480 "2016-04-19T14:00:32Z")
Can we jut Lance and aceplace together? I am a woman. I even made a kid to prove the point. I told you my opinion, as did a number of women. What do we have to do to be believed? It’s starting to feel like that woman in The Changeling. "Silly woman! Here’s what you really think. " [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lance-strongarm-transgender-bathroom-and-poly-marriage-extravaganza-thread/751244.md?page=25)