# The language pedant speaks (plural of virus)-- and a plea for clarity **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [April 12, 2020, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614 "2020-04-12T10:25:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/41 "2020-04-13T16:14:42Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > And yet people get all wound up about the “proper” Latin pluralization of words that have been in the English for much, much longer. To me, words like “novas” and “formulas” are just fine. > > So “viruses” is English. The Lain equivalent is not relevant. Nobody AFAIK ever claimed “viruses” (or even “pizzas”) was not English—not people who study them, not any English dictionary, nor I. The only fast rule is, as has been said, if you _are_ going to pepper your prose with gratuitous foreign phrases, be sure to get it right. (And as far as medicine goes, imo one should be as clear as possible to avoid potential catastrophic screw-ups, though Latin still seems to be used to some extent in medical prescriptions.) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/42 "2020-04-13T16:16:46Z")
Back when I was in college, my fellow students thought they were so clever in realizing that the plural of _syllabus_ could be _syllabi_ and they used it constantly, mostly in the _singular_, as in “Don’t forget to take a syllabi.” Idiots. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/43 "2020-04-13T16:29:03Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Back when I was in college, my fellow students thought they were so clever in realizing that the plural of _syllabus_ could be _syllabi_ and they used it constantly, mostly in the _singular_, as in “Don’t forget to take a syllabi.” Idiots. And why not decline it: if you are taking something, it would be a _syllabum_… ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/44 "2020-04-13T16:50:25Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I still get pissy about improper apostrophe use, though. Sometimes the meaning is clearer (NOT more clear) with a strategically-placed apostrophe. > [@](#): > > And proper comma use, is important, if challenging, for many. 😉 I’m the king of commas and semicolons, but even I think there are limits. > [@bobot](#): > > … I work in a trade where the word “thru” is used on official proprietary drawings. “Thru” means that a hole, or a feature is machined all the way THROUGH the part. > In a trade where through is thru, I don’t need anyone getting all hoity-toity about radiuses. > I now return you to the viruses thread. As a Chicago-ishian, you might be able to blame the Tribune’s Col McCormick for [del]aberrant[/del] simplified spellings like thru. [https://www.chicagotribune.com/ct-per-flash-simplespelling-0229-20120129-story.html](https://www.chicagotribune.com/ct-per-flash-simplespelling-0229-20120129-story.html) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/45 "2020-04-13T18:03:50Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Obviously I am going to defer to **GreenWyvern** for the straight dope on this one, but “duplicatum” would be the neuter perfect passive participle of “duplico”, so in the plural you get “duplicata”. I was looking for the singular, but I guess either way works for that post. Interesting stuff! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/46 "2020-04-13T18:49:34Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Sometimes the meaning is clearer (NOT more clear) with a strategically-placed apostrophe. > > I’m the king of commas and semicolons, but even I think there are limits. > As a Chicago-ishian, you might be able to blame the Tribune’s Col McCormick for [del]aberrant[/del] simplified spellings like thru. [https://www.chicagotribune.com/ct-per-flash-simplespelling-0229-20120129-story.html](https://www.chicagotribune.com/ct-per-flash-simplespelling-0229-20120129-story.html) Commas have become a huge problem. I constantly see this kind of thing – “The dog kept his bone in, the doghouse.” Perhaps not this blatant, but I seem to be seeing it more and more, this inappropriate comma before the object of a verb or a preposition. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/47 "2020-04-14T00:52:42Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > The only fast rule is, as has been said, if you _are_ going to pepper your prose with gratuitous foreign phrases, be sure to get it right. Are people who pepper their prose pepperazzi? How about those who prep their poes? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/48 "2020-04-14T11:07:22Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > I find it peculiar that words like “paparazzi” and “graffiti” have quite recently entered the English language as words that are both plural and singular with the [del]Latin[/del] Italian singulars generally ignored. Same with “zucchini”. If you have just one baby marrow or courgette, no one calls it a “zucchino” in English. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/49 "2020-04-14T11:28:26Z")
And then there’s the opposite phenomenon: the imported singular form “mongoose” sadly does not take the plural “mongeese”. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/50 "2020-04-14T12:52:03Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Same with “zucchini”. If you have just one baby marrow or courgette, no one calls it a “zucchino” in English. Most people I know do say paparazzo/a, and graffito. The one that gets me is “barista.” I have no problem with “baristas.” But should men with this job really be a “barista” with an -a? Or is this just the nature of loan words? ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/51 "2020-04-14T13:12:09Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > The one that gets me is “barista.” I have no problem with “baristas.” But should men with this job really be a “barista” with an -a? Or is this just the nature of loan words? In Italian, barista can be either masculine or feminine. The singular is the same for both, but the plural is baristi or bariste according to gender. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/52 "2020-04-14T15:58:06Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > I find it peculiar that words like “paparazzi” and “graffiti” have quite recently entered the English language as words that are both plural and singular with the [del]Latin[/del] Italian singulars generally ignored. > [@Giles](#): > > Same with “zucchini”. If you have just one baby marrow or courgette, no one calls it a “zucchino” in English. And “panini.” It kind of irks me that a word that just means “sandwiches” has this more particular meaning. Same with “chai.” It just means “tea,” nothing more than that. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/53 "2020-04-14T16:06:07Z")
Regarding “panini,” it somewhat annoys me that a word that simply means “sandwiches” ends up in a phrase like “sandwiches and paninis,” as if they’re too different things. It’s like “chai.” It just means “tea,” nothing more specific than that. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/54 "2020-04-14T17:09:08Z")
On the other hand… Italians use the English word ‘toast’ to mean a toasted sandwich. :D And when a Frenchman refers to ‘des baskets’, he means sneakers (US) or trainers (UK). A few more [here](http://www.topito.com/top-faux-anglicismes-francais-anglais). And here’s [A quick guide to speaking Franglais](https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/mar/11/a-quick-guide-to-speaking-franglais) I dare say speakers of many other languages misuse English words more than English speakers misuse words in their languages. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/55 "2020-04-14T17:43:54Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > On the other hand… Italians use the English word ‘toast’ to mean a toasted sandwich. :D Koreans use the English word “toast” (토스트/to-seu-teo) to mean “grilled cheese sandwich”. They’ve upped the game on that though, as you can see on one outfit’s menu [here](http://www.isaac-toast.co.kr/bbs/board.php?bo_table=tost). Koreans also use the English word “white shirt” (화이트 셔츠/hwa-i-teu shye-cheu) to mean “dress shirt”, regardless of color or pattern of the shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/56 "2020-04-14T17:59:10Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Koreans use the English word “toast” (토스트/to-seu-teo) to mean “grilled cheese sandwich”. They’ve upped the game on that though, as you can see on one outfit’s menu [here](http://www.isaac-toast.co.kr/bbs/board.php?bo_table=tost). Damn. Now I want a Deep Cheese Bacon Potato Toast on White Bread. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/57 "2020-04-14T18:19:44Z")
If you really want this thread to be effective, probably should have included “Viruses” in either the subject or first sentence. Write like an educator and not a magazine writer. You kind of buried the correct pluralization. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/58 "2020-04-14T18:52:16Z")
A [list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gairaigo_and_wasei-eigo_terms) of Japanese loan words from various languages. Most of them altered out of all recognition in both form and meaning. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/59 "2020-04-14T21:47:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And “panini.” It kind of irks me that a word that just means “sandwiches” has this more particular meaning. Same with “chai.” It just means “tea,” nothing more than that. I kid **Mrs. FtG** from time to time when she says “chai tea”. So “tea tea” then? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614/60 "2020-04-14T23:51:40Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > I kid **Mrs. FtG** from time to time when she says “chai tea”. So “tea tea” then? Yeah, why not call it “masala tea”? Or “spiced tea”? Or “Indian spiced tea”? “Chai tea” is just dumb. But I am amused when my brother asks for a “tai chi latte.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-language-pedant-speaks-plural-of-virus-and-a-plea-for-clarity/851614.md?page=4)