# The "Large" lady in the pub
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [June 29, 2006, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617 "2006-06-29T07:16:44Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/41 "2006-06-29T18:52:02Z")
> [@Sunspace](#):
>
> Off on a tangent (whee!)… I have to wonder about the bolded part. Are not business losses from smoking bans related to how widespread the ban is? If it’s only a city ban, the smokers decamp to the next city over and the pub-owners in the first city scream bloody murder. But I seem to remember readiong that in widescale bans (province-size, say, so that relatively-few pubs are near a border) everyone suffers equally and not as much. Does pub business go down absolutely after a wide-scale smoking ban?
The city of Los Angeles went to a total ban before all of California did. Restaurant and busines went up after the ban.
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/42 "2006-06-29T18:52:09Z")
> [@lee](#):
>
> Some fat people also have asthma which is triggered by inhaled irritants like smoke or even some fragrances. Asthma can kill much faster than obesity.
… and getting run over by cars whilst jaywalking can kill faster, too; does this mean we shouldn’t drive?
Or maybe, if she had asthma and breathing smoke could kill her, she shouldn’t go into bars?
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### Author:  [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/43 "2006-06-29T18:59:59Z")
> [@hajario](#):
>
> The city of Los Angeles went to a total ban before all of California did. Restaurant and busines went up after the ban.
I mangled the crap out of that:
The city of Los Angeles went to a total ban before the rest of California did. Restaurant and bar business went up after the ban.
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### Author:  [@Mindfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mindfield)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/44 "2006-06-29T19:04:28Z")
> [@lee](#):
>
> It may be that she could have phrased it better, but her actions were far less egregious than if she had complained about you smoking because it was unhealthful to you.
I don’t see it that way. Had she merely been offering unsolicited “advice” on the health risks of smoking that would have been one thing, and certainly rude, but you can scoff at it as you please. On the other hand, someone who deliberately walks into an establishment where smoking is explicitly permitted and vigorously engaged in, flails her arms about whenever someone lights up, and then complains to that person that _their_ smoke is “killing” them – that’s beyond the pale. As well stop cars on the road to complain that their exhaust fumes are making her lightheaded, or bitch at the couple on the table next to you at a restaurant that their meal has an offensive odour. All of these are the actions of a woman with a grandiose sense of entitlement who could stand having a few strips torn off.
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### Author:  [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/45 "2006-06-29T19:43:01Z")
Seeing as you’re English, you should have taken a cue from your countryman Winston Churchill when confronted with rudeness.
Bitch in bar: “Your smoke is going to kill me.”
Chowder: “If you were my wife, I’d drink it.”
or
Bitch in bar: “Your smoke is going to kill me.”
Chowder: “That is true, and you are ugly. Tomorrow morning I’ll be sober and you’ll still be ugly.”
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### Author:  [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/46 "2006-06-29T20:12:19Z")
> [@lee](#):
>
> Some fat people also have asthma which is triggered by inhaled irritants like smoke or even some fragrances. Asthma can kill much faster than obesity. From my own experience, I know that it can be difficult to gauge just how much an irritant will affect me in any given situation. Sometimes even before I am consciously aware of an odor, I feel my throat narrowing and start coughing. I try to avoid situations which involve being near irritants, but sometimes social and business obligations mean that I can’t really avoid them. I have to be on the watch leave quickly if I start to have an asthma attack.
But you wouldn’t demand that someone stop doing something that was legal and expected in those situations from doing whatever it was, would you? Some public places have lawns made up of a type of grass that I’m allergic to. Do I demand that they rip out this grass and plant something else? No, I take medications to control my allergies, and limit the time I spend outdoors in those areas.
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### Author:  [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/47 "2006-06-29T20:41:24Z")
> [@Anne Neville](#):
>
> But you wouldn’t demand that someone stop doing something that was legal and expected in those situations from doing whatever it was, would you? Some public places have lawns made up of a type of grass that I’m allergic to. Do I demand that they rip out this grass and plant something else? No, I take medications to control my allergies, and limit the time I spend outdoors in those areas.
I generally try to avoid allergens. I do not generally ask people to not smoke around me, partially because if has become an issue, I am often too far into an attack to make any request. My friends have made the request on my behalf when smokers lit up next to our table on a patio or other areas where smoking was permitted.
I have insisted that co-workers stop using certain fragrances if they expect me to work in the same room as they are in. I have offered to conference into the meeting with them instead from a remote location. I have asked my company to remove poison gas containers maskerading as air fresheners from the bathroom closest to my work area.
When someone on the train has such fragrance on, I get as far away from them as I can immediately and exit at the next station. I have repeatedly faced people who saw no point in letting me move to the opposite end of the car and some decided to actively block my way.
I stand by my statement that unsolicited personal remarks, or unsolicited advice is rude and in fact is more rude than a request that someone refrain from doing something that is detrimental to the requester.
I don’t think it was rude for her to ask him not to smoke, I think the manner she made request may well have been rude.
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/48 "2006-06-29T20:49:55Z")
> [@lee](#):
>
> I don’t think it was rude for her to ask him not to smoke, I think the manner she made request may well have been rude.
However, given the situation described in the OP…
> [@](#):
>
> So last Saturday we’re in the pub watching the World Cup and the place is packed solid.
>
> Lot’s of people are smoking 'cos it’s still allowed in the UK
She went out to a pub in London during the World Cup, saw that it was packed, saw that people were smoking, and _stayed anyway,_ then, after she realized lots of people weren’t going to stop smoking just because she waved at them, she asked the OP to stop smoking, because his smoke was going to kill her…
His response may have been rude, but she really freakin’ started it…
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### Author:  [@akira5822](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akira5822)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/49 "2006-06-29T20:55:38Z")
> [@malkavia](#):
>
> I love how horrified people are by what basically amounts to a very brief, very mild exposure to cigarettes. “It’ll kill me!” as though without the cigarettes, she was well on her way to becoming immortal. :rolleyes:
PUTTING THAT ON A T-SHIRT !!!
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### Author:  [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/50 "2006-06-29T21:00:32Z")
> [@dnooman](#):
>
> So, if a stranger says it, he should go to hell for being rude. If a friend says it more politely, it’s constructive criticism?
Yes. That’s called having the bare minimum of social graces and not being so astonishingly presumtuous as to speak to a total stranger as though she was your sister.
She was out of line, so were you. It sounds like she had zero right to object to what you were doing, but what would youhave said if she were an anorexic waif ?
Cartooniverse
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### Author:  [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/51 "2006-06-29T21:29:51Z")
> [@chowder](#):
>
> \
> Next summer, 2007, smoking will be banned in pubs/clubs and the like, I shall then reserve the right to kill myself at home 😉 …pub landlord will lose megabucks 😃
>
> \
Smoking was banned in all public places, and witin 25 feet of places people gather, in Washington State last year.
The ban has, in no way, affected the profits of bar or resturant owners.
The stats were reported in the local paper a couple months ago, so I have no specific cite.
People go to bars (pubs) to drink. They will continue to do so, albiet, complaining that they can’t smoke.
You were both rude, in my opinion. That doesn’t, however, make either of you stupid. If you insisted that your smoking isn’t affecting anyone’s (including your own) health, _THAT_ would be stupid.
Her fat may or may not be hurting her. Inevitably, it will, eventually, but you had no way of knowing that she had any health problems when you personally attacked her. It certainly wasn’t hurting _YOU._
Fat in and of itself isn’t a health problem. It is an indicator of possible future problems.
You attacked her, not because she dissed you first, but because society, like everyone here who agreed with you, says it’s OK to be rude and hurtful to the ugly, deformed or fat.
I need to stop now, before I get really angry.
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### Author:  [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/52 "2006-06-29T21:43:40Z")
> [@picunurse](#):
>
> You attacked her, not because she dissed you first, but because society, like everyone here who agreed with you, says it’s OK to be rude and hurtful to the ugly, deformed or fat.
> I need to stop now, before I get really angry.
I would argue that if a lady of the same stature walked into a bar, smiled politely at those around her and only gave her opinion on smoking when asked, that the OP wouldn’t have been hurtful to her at all.
If she were of an average size, he may have said, “Being a bitch who thinks everything is her business is likely to get you killed well before my smoking gets you.”
She was attacked because she was obnoxious, being fat appears to have been incidental.
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### Author:  [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/53 "2006-06-29T21:49:42Z")
> [@Eve](#):
>
> Seeing as you’re English, you should have taken a cue from your countryman Winston Churchill when confronted with rudeness.
>
> Bitch in bar: “Your smoke is going to kill me.”
> Chowder: “If you were my wife, I’d drink it.”
>
> or
>
> Bitch in bar: “Your smoke is going to kill me.”
> Chowder: “That is true, and you are ugly. Tomorrow morning I’ll be sober and you’ll still be ugly.”
I like the one where old Winston was seriously getting on in years but still attending the House on a regular basis, and as he was shuffling slowly across a lobby, a junior MP murmured “They say he’s dotty, you know” to another. Moments later Churchill growled “They say he’s deaf, too”, and shuffled on his way.
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### Author:  [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/54 "2006-06-29T21:54:30Z")
> [@malkavia](#):
>
> She was attacked because she was obnoxious, being fat appears to have been incidental.
Would you say the same thing if what he chose to attack were her race?
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### Author:  [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/55 "2006-06-29T22:07:24Z")
> [@lee](#):
>
> Would you say the same thing if what he chose to attack were her race?
Completely different issue.
1. Race is, unlike obesity (in most cases), something over which we have no control.
2. The insult about her obesity was directly related to health issues—health issues that the woman herself made relevant by criticizing the OP’s smoking.
Nice try, though.
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### Author:  [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/56 "2006-06-29T23:02:25Z")
> [@mhendo](#):
>
> Completely different issue.
>
> 1. Race is, unlike obesity (in most cases), something over which we have no control.
>
> 2. The insult about her obesity was directly related to health issues—health issues that the woman herself made relevant by criticizing the OP’s smoking.
>
> Nice try, though.
So, you can’t imagine someone saying something along the lines of, “Your kind is more likely to die for other reasons around these parts.”
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### Author:  [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/57 "2006-06-29T23:16:47Z")
> [@lee](#):
>
> So, you can’t imagine someone saying something along the lines of, “Your kind is more likely to die for other reasons around these parts.”
I _can_ imagine some bigot saying that.
But the OP didn’t say that, and there’s no indication that he would have made race an issue, so you’re still missing the point.
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### Author:  [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/58 "2006-06-29T23:26:21Z")
I am not missing the point. The OP insulted someone for being fat when she declared, apparently in a rude manner, that his smoke was going to kill her. Her being fat was orthogonal to her being rude or her not wanting him to smoke, just as her race would be. Him insulting her by making a personal remark about an irrelevant characteristic, only related to her remark in that it could also cause her death, is uncalled for.
The OP had the good grace to feel bad for meeting rudeness with rudenes of his own, as he should.
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### Author:  [@hawksgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawksgirl)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/59 "2006-06-29T23:28:03Z")
Her wieght had nothing to do with rudeness. I’m sure no matter who it was behaving like that they would have been told off.
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### Author:  [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)
#### Post date: [June 29, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/60 "2006-06-29T23:38:02Z")
> [@lee](#):
>
> I am not missing the point. The OP insulted someone for being fat when she declared, apparently in a rude manner, that his smoke was going to kill her. Her being fat was orthogonal to her being rude or her not wanting him to smoke, just as her race would be. Him insulting her by making a personal remark about an irrelevant characteristic, **only related to her remark in that it could also cause her death** , is uncalled for.
Bolding mine.
And that is the key issue, one that you are stupidly treating as irrelevant. If she wants to criticize him for endangering her health by smoking, he can criticize her for endangering her own health by being obese.
The same could not be said if she was, say, black or Asian.
> [@lee](#):
>
> The OP had the good grace to feel bad for meeting rudeness with rudenes of his own, as he should.
I’m not commenting on whether the OP was rude or not. I’m simply noting that your introduction of race to the issue is asinine.
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