# The "Large" lady in the pub
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [June 29, 2006, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617 "2006-06-29T07:16:44Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/61 "2006-06-30T00:24:38Z")
> [@mhendo](#):
>
> If she wants to criticize him for endangering her health by smoking, he can criticize her for endangering her own health by being obese.
So does that mean that fat people can’t ever criticize others for behaviors that affect their well-being? That seems to be the general attitude in this thread.
The lady’s complaint is stupid because she was in a bar, the kind of place which is notorious for being smoky. It was rude because of the way she expressed herself. If the OP wanted to return rudeness for rudeness in equal measure, he should have simply said that smoking and bars go hand-in-hand, so tough shit. But bringing her weight into it made things unnecessarily personal and ad homenimish.
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### Author:  [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/62 "2006-06-30T00:37:28Z")
> [@you with the face](#):
>
> So does that mean that fat people can’t ever criticize others for behaviors that affect their well-being? That seems to be the general attitude in this thread.
>
> The lady’s complaint is stupid because she was in a bar, the kind of place which is notorious for being smoky. It was rude because of the way she expressed herself. If the OP wanted to return rudeness for rudeness in equal measure, he should have simply said that smoking and bars go hand-in-hand, so tough shit. But bringing her weight into it made things unnecessarily personal and ad homenimish.
Let me repeat what i said: i’m not making any judgment on whether or not it was rude. I was simply trying to point out that trying to make an analogy to race is silly and inappropriate.
And, as a general principle, if a person is a rude jackass to me (as this woman was to the OP), then there’s a decent chance that i will be ruder than normal to them in return. I tend to get a bit “personal and ad hominemish” if someone sticks their beak into my business for no good reason. If people don’t like it, they can mind their own fucking business in the first place.
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### Author:  [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/63 "2006-06-30T00:38:39Z")
Good lord–is this turning into a thread where it is not ok to be rude to fat people?\*
Why?
She was rude; he was rude back. How is his gaffe worse than hers? He feels bad about his remark, which should be proof enough that the OP is a fairly decent guy (gal?). IMO, if the chick had been “an anorexic waif”, he might well have said something about her lack of eating would kill her quicker. He blurted out the first thing that came into his head–we’ve all done that.
\*No, it’s not nice to be rude-to anyone, no matter their weight. But that is not at issue here–although many are trying to make this thread somehow be about the victimization of fat --excuse me, weight challenged people. This is silly. Weight and race or gender or ethnicity do not equate. This rude girl seems a bit dim, really–would she declaim that she was in dire peril of catching an STD? How stupid is she–an English pub during World Cup–and she expects a nonsmoking atmosphere? Perhaps she needs to hang out in the Tube or something. D’oh.
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### Author:  [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/64 "2006-06-30T00:58:53Z")
> [@you with the face](#):
>
> So does that mean that fat people can’t ever criticize others for behaviors that affect their well-being? That seems to be the general attitude in this thread.
Why do I get the distinct feeling that if he were watching her eat a burger and biggie fries while merrily puffing away on his cigarette and made an offhanded remark about how she was killing herself, no one would bat an eyelash at calling him out on his hypocracy?
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### Author:  [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/65 "2006-06-30T01:10:28Z")
You make no mention of anyone else accompanying this woman, or leaving the pub with her, so I assume she was alone. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Did you know she was alone? If so, would you have made the same comment if she had been escorted to the proceedings by a fat guy, or any kind of guy for that matter?
If you didn’t know she was alone, your immediate riposte put you at some risk of retribution, in my opinion.
I’m not making any judgements here. I’m just curious to know whether circumstances alter cases, so to speak.
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### Author:  [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/66 "2006-06-30T01:11:47Z")
> [@lee](#):
>
> Some fat people also have asthma which is triggered by inhaled irritants like smoke or even some fragrances.
And some skinny people have asthma, such as myself.
Do you know what I do to combat the problem - I don’t go to smoky bars, because…
It’s **MY** problem.
The woman was an obnoxious twit. If she was that bothered by cigarette smoke, she shouldn’t have gone to a smoky bar.
The world doesn’t revolve around her, it doesn’t revolve around me, and despite what seems to be your opinion to the contrary, it doesn’t revolve around you.
The lady in the OP needs to get over herself, and from the sounds of it, you might consider it too.
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### Author:  [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/67 "2006-06-30T02:56:31Z")
Nope, you were fully in the right:
1. You were right, her obesity is a lot more likely to do her in than sucking in a tiny bit of tobacky with her air for a couple of hours.
2. Lots of other people were smoking, right? Why should she try to step on you in particular?
3. Why should she try to step on anyone? Nobody walks into classrooms, movie theaters, elevators etc. with her and demands to be able to smoke. She doesn’t get to do it the other way around. Aren’t there non-smoking restaurants you can go to to watch the games?
> [@you with the face](#):
>
> Yeah, but my point is that has nothing to do with her size. She could have just as easily been a thin person making the same stupid complaint.
Not really, unless she was obviously anorexic or bulimic.
> [@mhendo](#):
>
> Just because America has more large people, that doesn’t really change what is and is not unhealthy obesity.
I think her point is that while the “18 stones” comment seemed to be intended to draw a collective gasp and shudder from the UK comment, 252 lb is nothing on some of the people she sees every day. Same here–I see people (women particularly) who are well into the 300s and 400s on a daily basis at my college.
> [@lee](#):
>
> Some fat people also have asthma which is triggered by inhaled irritants like smoke or even some fragrances. Asthma can kill much faster than obesity. From my own experience, I know that it can be difficult to gauge just how much an irritant will affect me in any given situation. Sometimes even before I am consciously aware of an odor, I feel my throat narrowing and start coughing. I try to avoid situations which involve being near irritants, but sometimes social and business obligations mean that I can’t really avoid them. I have to be on the watch leave quickly if I start to have an asthma attack.
What sort of social or business obligation do you think this person was tied up in that she was forced to go to a smoking bar to watch a soccer game? I’m sure there’s a TV showing the World Cup every 20 feet in the UK. If she had to watch the games for business, she’d be either in a studio or in Germany (where the World Cup is being held) or both.
> [@picunurse](#):
>
> You attacked her, not because she dissed you first, but because society, like everyone here who agreed with you, says it’s OK to be rude and hurtful to the ugly, deformed or fat.
> I need to stop now, before I get really angry.
Or…she was a total asshat and a pot calling the kettle black to boot. Lots of people go on about how society says it’s OK to be rude to ugly, fat, and disabled people, etc., having been ugly and fat during my lifetime (granted, nowhere near 18 stones), I really think that it’s like astrology: the people who believe in it confirm their belief whenever an anomoly happens and ignore the overwhelming evidence that people in general are still being nice to them.
That said, I don’t think I’d have the heart to say what **chowder** said, but given the context of the thing I can’t fault him any more than I can fault Ms. Histrionics.
---
### Author:  [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/68 "2006-06-30T03:18:20Z")
> [@mhendo](#):
>
> Bolding mine.
>
> And that is the key issue, one that you are stupidly treating as irrelevant. If she wants to criticize him for endangering her health by smoking, he can criticize her for endangering her own health by being obese.
>
> The same could not be said if she was, say, black or Asian.I’m not commenting on whether the OP was rude or not. I’m simply noting that your introduction of race to the issue is asinine.
So, why is her affecting her own health any of his business? It amounts to fat bigotry no matter how you try to mitigate it.
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/69 "2006-06-30T05:33:15Z")
> [@you with the face](#):
>
> Her size doesn’t negate the fact that second-hand smoke is harmful. It’s pointless and rude to bitch about it in a bar, of course. But **chowder’s** behavior is not excused just because she is fat.
Here is where we are talking past each other. I agree that the comment was impolite. However, while it was a rude, cutting remark, I think that the woman invited it by being an ass. Yes, second-hand smoke has negative health consequences – for people who are _constantly_ exposed to it. If she wished to avoid those consequences, the onus was on her to decide where she hangs out. Watching a single football match in a smoky bar is about as lethal as attending a bonfire or cycling once (in a designated lane) alongside diesel-exhaust-emiting traffic. Putting the responsibility for her health on other patrons in a designated smoking area is pure cuntbuggery, and left her open to _any_ remark.
Look at this: Saturated fats can be harmful. If some sallow-complexioned, anemic, underweight twat berated the waitstaff in a steakhouse because there were no vegan items on the menu, no personal qualities of the complainer negate the fact that saturated fats _are_ unhealthy, but nevertheless the complainer could and should be expected to be met with derision and ridicule. “Everything has _beef_ here! This will kill me! Bring me a watercress sandwich on naan with arugula and bean sprouts!” “Fffft. You’re more likely to die of malnutrition than anything you’ll find here.”
> [@you with the face](#):
>
> According to your logic, a person engaged in _any_ risky behavior has no right to complain when someone else is doing something that has negative consequences on their health.
My logic? I’d be interested in seeing you spell that out syllogistically. The only argument that I’m making is that rude people forfeit any expectation they might have of being treated with full respect and courtesy.
> [@you with the face](#):
>
> Guess that means that smokers can’t complain when sick people refuse to cover their mouths when sneezing around them, huh? Afterall, what’s a few viruses compared to all the tar and soot that smokers intentionally invite into their bodies. They should shaddup already.
This is not analogous at all. There are no designated areas for people to expel virii willy-nilly for pleasure that indignant smokers might wander into to complain about.
But yes, I’ll allow that if there _was_ some place where people conventionally went to cough their microbes all over each other socially, a smoker who went there and tried to discourage people from indulging in their chosen vice citing the (negligible) effect that catching the flu might have on their life expectency, they ought to be publicly ridiculed for being a stupid stinky smoker who thinks the world revolves around them and has no conception of the relative risks of either choice, and given a heaping spoonful of Fuck Right Off.
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### Author:  [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/70 "2006-06-30T05:38:40Z")
> [@Chez Guevara](#):
>
> You make no mention of anyone else accompanying this woman, or leaving the pub with her, so I assume she was alone. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
>
> Did you know she was alone? If so, would you have made the same comment if she had been escorted to the proceedings by a fat guy, or any kind of guy for that matter?
>
> If you didn’t know she was alone, your immediate riposte put you at some risk of retribution, in my opinion.
>
> I’m not making any judgements here. I’m just curious to know whether circumstances alter cases, so to speak.
The lady was not alone, she was with a guy much younger than herself and I can only assume that he was her son/nephew or whatever.
Regardless of that, my remark, as stated previously, was an impromptu one…it just flew out my mouth before I had engaged gear.
As for putting myself at risk, yes I probably did just that but bear in mind that the pub is my local and lots of people know me for what I am ( a decent sort of bloke) I like to think that any attack on me would have been very quickly nipped in the bud by my buddies and drinking partners.
Incidentally I had never seen the lady in question before and can only assume she was in that particular pub because there are 4 large screen TV sets and loads of regular sized ones, made watching the football easier and doubtless accounted for the place being as full as it was.
It’s a good pub and in all the years I’ve been going there I’ve only 3 times seen any trouble and that was caused by “strangers” who were very quickly shown the door by us regulars, we take care of the place and the gaffer takes care of us.
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### Author:  [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/71 "2006-06-30T05:39:17Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#):
>
> look around your local mall, grocery store, whatever and you will see plenty of people MUCH over 300 lbs.
:eek: :eek: :eek:
You don’t happen to live in [the Houston area](http://www.webmd.com/content/article/99/105092.htm), do you? 😉
I would not say I see plenty of people “much over 300 lbs”. Do I see them? Sure… But I wouldn’t say more than 1 out of 500 is over 300 lbs, and certainly not among the women!
Now with a threshold 200 lbs., I might agree with you. But 300 is really quite heavy, even for us porky Americans!
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### Author:  [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/72 "2006-06-30T05:39:33Z")
> [@picunurse](#):
>
> So, why is her affecting her own health any of his business? It amounts to fat bigotry no matter how you try to mitigate it.
It wasn’t any of his business…until she stuck her nose into his business. Put your hand in the fire, there’s a good chance you’ll get burned.
The OP has already stated that it wasn’t a nice thing to say. I tend to agree that it wasn’t a nice thing to say. But the way some of you whiners are carrying on, you’d think he had just walked up and called her a lard-ass with no provocation. The fact is, she acted like a jackass, and got some in return.
Personally, i hate smoking and cigarette smoke. I think it’s a vile disgusting habit, and i don’t much like coming home from a pub with my clothes and hair reeking of other people’s smoke. But when i go to such places, i know what i’m getting into, and i don’t spend my time rolling my eyes at the smokers or telling them that their smoke is killing me.
> [@Larry Mudd](#):
>
> The only argument that I’m making is that rude people forfeit any expectation they might have of being treated with full respect and courtesy.
That’s pretty much my feeling on the subject.
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### Author:  [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/73 "2006-06-30T05:53:26Z")
> [@picunurse](#):
>
> So, why is her affecting her own health any of his business? It amounts to fat bigotry no matter how you try to mitigate it.
Fat bigotry?
Listen to me please, I don’t personally care how fat/thin/medium build anyone is.
For that matter I’m a great believer in “Be nice to me and I’ll be nice to you”.
I don’t care what race/colour/religion/creed anyone is…I really couldn’t give a monkeys chuff.
As stated in my OP my remark was out of character, if the lady had said nothing all would have been fine and dandy but she stuck her oar in where it wasn’t wanted.
I was smoking in a PUB, at the present time it’s permitted to do just that and if the lady found my smoking was annoying to her the doors were not locked.
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### Author:  [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/74 "2006-06-30T07:02:23Z")
> [@chowder](#):
>
> Fat bigotry?
>
> Listen to me please, I don’t personally care how fat/thin/medium build anyone is.
>
> For that matter I’m a great believer in “Be nice to me and I’ll be nice to you”.
>
> I don’t care what race/colour/religion/creed anyone is…I really couldn’t give a monkeys chuff.
>
> As stated in my OP my remark was out of character, if the lady had said nothing all would have been fine and dandy but she stuck her oar in where it wasn’t wanted.
>
> I was smoking in a PUB, at the present time it’s permitted to do just that and if the lady found my smoking was annoying to her the doors were not locked.
Then why did you even notice? Indeed, she was rude. But, you made it a personal attack. Her health or her weight is none of your business. Your smoking can hurt others, whether legal or not, her weight does not hurt you or anyone else.
You didn’t have to respond at all. I’m not saying it’s in your character, I’m saying, society allows you and anyone else, to target fat people, with impunity.
I was thin most of my life. After menopause, and some life changing difficulties, I am now fat. I’m healthy and I’m working on losing the weight. (and you don’t know she isn’t)
I’ve been mooed at, run into the ditch while walking, told I shouldn’t be eating in public, and had my food removed by a waiter (not our server) and told I’d had enough.
Yes, I’m sensitive on the issue, and I will be even when I’ve lost the weight.
It wouldn’t hurt any of you to learn some compassion. No one ever sits down at the table and says. “I think I’ll just eat until I’m as big as a hippo.” There, my friends, but for the grace of Og, go thou.
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### Author:  [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/75 "2006-06-30T07:38:06Z")
Yeah man, when someone’s rude to you, just sit there and take it! If you say anything back, you might hurt their feelings, you bigot.
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### Author:  [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/76 "2006-06-30T07:47:26Z")
You really aren’t reading my posts very well Picunurse are you?
Why did I notice? Gawd strewth I could hardly miss could I and for the very last time I’ll repeat myself, MY REMARK WAS OUT OF CHARACTER.
Also as has been pointed out by others replying to my post, the lady herself made it a personal attack first, I responded unkindly I admit but my smoking is none of her business, I’m happy with my smoking. I enjoy my cigarettes, I pay for them, I smoke 'em.
Why did I not have to respond?
What was I supposed to do? smile blandly and apologise profusely and beg forgiveness for my disgusting habit…I think not.
Compassion!! I’ve got that in spades however you strike me as a person who is carrying one hell of a chip on your shoulder and I know not why.
Incidentally It’s God and not og.
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### Author:  [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/77 "2006-06-30T07:48:55Z")
> [@Sublight](#):
>
> Yeah man, when someone’s rude to you, just sit there and take it! If you say anything back, you might hurt their feelings, you bigot.
Must 'member to do that in future 😉
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### Author:  [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/78 "2006-06-30T08:49:52Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#):
>
> Yes. That’s called having the bare minimum of social graces and not being so astonishingly presumtuous as to speak to a total stranger as though she was your sister.
>
> She was out of line, so were you. It sounds like she had zero right to object to what you were doing, but what would youhave said if she were an anorexic waif ?
>
> Cartooniverse
This is **chowders’s** thread. I said nothing to anyone. Are you talking to me or him?
BTW, the second part of your question has already been addressed in this thread.
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### Author:  [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/79 "2006-06-30T08:55:23Z")
> [@fetus](#):
>
> I think her point is that while the “18 stones” comment seemed to be intended to draw a collective gasp and shudder from the UK comment, 252 lb is nothing on some of the people she sees every day. Same here–I see people (women particularly) who are well into the 300s and 400s on a daily basis at my college.
Ho.
Lee.
Crap. :eek:
When I was a lad, the _very_ occasional 300+lb TV wrestler was considered enormous, such as [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Daddy_%28wrestler%29) guy - 375lb at his peak. (The front-on picture doesn’t convey the whole story of his heroic girth, by any means.)
Those are some serious glandular conditions you got going on over there, friend.
---
### Author:  [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2006, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-large-lady-in-the-pub/362617/80 "2006-06-30T09:09:19Z")
> [@picunurse](#):
>
> Then why did you even notice? Indeed, she was rude. But, you made it a personal attack. Her health or her weight is none of your business. Your smoking can hurt others, whether legal or not, her weight does not hurt you or anyone else.
> You didn’t have to respond at all. I’m not saying it’s in your character, I’m saying, society allows you and anyone else, to target fat people, with impunity.
> I was thin most of my life. After menopause, and some life changing difficulties, I am now fat. I’m healthy and I’m working on losing the weight. (and you don’t know she isn’t)
> I’ve been mooed at, run into the ditch while walking, told I shouldn’t be eating in public, and had my food removed by a waiter (not our server) and told I’d had enough.
>
> Yes, I’m sensitive on the issue, and I will be even when I’ve lost the weight.
>
> It wouldn’t hurt any of you to learn some compassion. No one ever sits down at the table and says. “I think I’ll just eat until I’m as big as a hippo.” There, my friends, but for the grace of Og, go thou.
Being fat does not excuse being a bitch. Period.
I’m fat. Not freaky fat, but enough so that people look at me differently. You were fat, you’re not so fat now. The fact that this woman was obese, was merely a dichotomy used by the insulter, to make a point. She should have shut her mouth to begin with. Railing on about health issues was another mistake.
If she’s _that_ sensitive to stimula, stay home. Live in a bubble. Sorry about your luck. That’s as crass as I can imagine, but why would anyone harass people living normal lives within the confines of the law?
I won’t drink or smoke where you live, ever. Please don’t try to live where I smoke and I drink. I don’t care how fat you or anyone else are. Deal with it, or go elsewhere.
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