# The Last of Us - tv show discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, hbomax-wb-dc\ **Created:** [January 16, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314 "2023-01-16T16:30:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/383 "2023-03-14T17:23:45Z")
EDIT: whoops, this was a reply to Digital C, but I didn’t really mean that. It’s just a general post. Sorry for the confusion. As for, “Did Joel do it for Ellie, or himself?”: He did it out of love. It’s been said that the things we do for love we do for ourselves, because of how it makes us feel, that there is no such thing as an unselfish motive. This was no different. He loved her, didn’t want her to die, and the pain of her death would have been too great for him. My thoughts on the finale in general: I thought it was too fast-paced. I would have preferred they get to the Fireflies and have a period of feeling safe, then things turn all, “kill Ellie.” They REALLY jumped to killing her pretty fast. Surely they would have wanted to explore all avenues - draw blood, look for antibodies, etc, before they kill their test subject. That could have stretched out the ending into two episodes. And yes, I know they explained why they were doing it - I just don’t buy it. You don’t kill your only subject right away without exhausting every test that might be useful. Makes me think the doctor was something of a quack, not really up to the job. I watched The Last of Us game walkthrough on Youtube, since I knew I’d never play it and it seemed like a good story, and I felt like I was missing out on a cultural touchstone. I watched it, but I don’t remember how quickly things went once they got to the Fireflies - but I would guess it went very much like the show. Makes sense for a game, but they might have slowed things down some for the show. I really enjoyed it the show. I’m sorry to see the season end. Now, when does the FALLOUT show start, with Walton Goggins? ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2023, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/384 "2023-03-14T17:32:04Z")
Another thing I found kind of funny - in this big old empty hospital they still made sure they did her surgery in the pediatric wing, instead of just using whichever operating room was closest. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2023, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/385 "2023-03-14T21:03:45Z")
Did Joel kill the two nurses? If not, it might not have been a great idea to leave witnesses. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/386 "2023-03-14T21:07:00Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Did Joel kill the two nurses? If not, it might not have been a great idea to leave witnesses. In the show? No. In the game? Well, I sure killed the shit out of them. With the flamethrower. Regarding the leaving of witnesses, it’s an interesting question, especially given the cameo role involving one of the nurses and the plot of the sequel. None of which I’ll spoil here. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2023, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/387 "2023-03-14T23:10:24Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > They REALLY jumped to killing her pretty fast. Surely they would have wanted to explore all avenues - draw blood, look for antibodies, etc, before they kill their test subject. That could have stretched out the ending into two episodes. And yes, I know they explained why they were doing it - I just don’t buy it. You don’t kill your only subject right away without exhausting every test that might be useful. This. It’s so stupid as to take me right out of the story. If they want to assert that there are NO cordyceps or “messenger” particles in the blood, then they should have established that humans catch infected people, restrain them, and take their blood to use for their own needs. Obviously we have _not_ been shown that. It’s just not plausible that there was full confidence that the “messenger” particles could be found ONLY in Ellie’s brain. I hate when stories resort to fake dilemmas, and that’s what all this was. (Though I’m still looking forward to what they do with season 2.) ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/388 "2023-03-15T00:54:35Z")
I had trouble buying that Joel never considered that they might harm or kill her. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/389 "2023-03-15T02:15:28Z")
I think Joel was trusting his gut instinct, and Marlene and the rest of the fireflies just didn’t seem like honourable people. Did he do the right thing by not telling Ellie the truth? I dunno. Maybe she can’t handle the truth. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/390 "2023-03-15T03:53:14Z")
You also have to remember, she’s only 14. That’s a little young to be making life and death decisions. Joel lying to an 18-20 year old would be one thing, but it’s more understandable that he’d want to protect a young teen from the truth (even if it is was the wrong decision). ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/391 "2023-03-15T04:45:35Z")
I haven’t been watching the show (I don’t have HBO), but there was an interesting item on tonight’s news about it, and the impact it may have on Alberta tourism. Note that the show is filmed in Alberta): > **[Tourism boost expected as 'The Last of Us' highlights locations across Alberta](https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/tourism-boost-expected-as-the-last-of-us-highlights-locations-across-alberta-1.6313238)** > > The first season of HBO's 'The Last of Us' aired its finale on March 12 and the show has been taking the world by storm since its premiere. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/392 "2023-03-15T04:51:41Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > there was an interesting item on tonight’s news about it, and the impact it may have on Alberta tourism. Being an Albertan myself, I concur this show has been great for calling attention to filming in Alberta. Once upon a time The Unforgiven and Brokeback Mountain were two other movies filmed here, along with series like North of 60. Cool to see your hometown, even in a zombie…er, cordyceps… apocalypse. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/393 "2023-03-15T15:51:47Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > And yes, I know they explained why they were doing it - I just don’t buy it. You don’t kill your only subject right away without exhausting every test that might be useful. Makes me think the doctor was something of a quack, not really up to the job. That’s kind of my take on this. I suspect the Fireflys were just as delusional as the cannibals. I mean, even now, with our full society backing the research, it would be difficult to figure out a cure for such an infestation. What are the odds that the few doctors and scientists left, working in a run-down hospital with little access to drugs, chemicals, and state-of-the-art equipment, could come up with such a cure? Even if the few who survived were literally the best in their fields, which is highly unlikely, without the support system of a modern scientific society behind them, they could never do this. The fact that they jumped straight to murder with no intervening steps just highlights this incompetence and delusion. They’re cosplaying as the Saviors of Humanity in order to make themselves feel better, even if they have to kill a teenager to do it. ---
**Author:** ![TheTooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/919ad9/32.png) [@TheTooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheTooth)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/394 "2023-03-15T15:57:49Z")
Drag. The campsites are crowded enough as is. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/395 "2023-03-15T16:00:44Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > That’s a little young to be making life and death decisions. They crossed that line waaaaay back. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/396 "2023-03-15T16:10:03Z")
Great show. Enjoyed it. re: telling her the truth. I think there is two distinct lies being told. 1. Why/how he saved her life in that moment. This is not such a big deal to me. Raiders came, and I got you out of there vs. I killed everyone because the fireflies were going to kill you via mid-evil brain surgery. If Joel wanted to protect her from knowing Marlene/fireflies being not good people, this is an appropriate lie. 2. No possibility of a cure / there are others like you / doctors have no hope, etc. This one is a bigger deal. He’s choosing saving _his_ “daughter” (that is what she is now to him) over the possibility of a worldwide cure. Not sure if that is his call. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/397 "2023-03-15T16:15:34Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > He’s choosing saving _his_ “daughter” (that is what she is now to him) over the possibility of a worldwide cure. Not sure if that is his call. Maybe this isn’t as universal as I think, but if the choice was my own child’s life versus some unknown, nebulous chance of “saving humanity,” I’m saving my kid. I struggle to think of any parent who wouldn’t make the same choice for their own child. Maybe I’m wrong? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/398 "2023-03-15T16:22:30Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Maybe I’m wrong? No, I think most people would feel the same. The fuck up here was 100% on the fireflies/Marlene just straight up telling him. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/399 "2023-03-15T16:24:16Z")
I would agree. I think here though, it’s not his daughter, and while I’m not going the firefly route, why shut down the whole you’re not special/no chance of a cure _idea_. While I don’t think you need to go straight to kill the kid for a cure, I also don’t think Joel gets to make the decision to shut down any possibility of using her as a cure. It’s complicated. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/400 "2023-03-15T16:25:13Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > I suspect the Fireflys were just as delusional as the cannibals. I mean, even now, with our full society backing the research, it would be difficult to figure out a cure for such an infestation. _Slate_ has a new article from someone who actually understands the show (unlike the last bit of claptrap they wrote), with the exact same point. The author interviewed two molecular microbiology and immunology scientists who go into detail about why it makes no sense, and how developing a useful vaccine or antidote would be nearly impossible even if it did make sense. So either it’s science fiction, and this is way things work in this world and we need to suspend disbelief, or as you say, the Fireflies are incompetent and delusional. I like the latter interpretation. > All season long, _The Last of Us_ has depicted a humanity that’s barely worth saving, where, though there are some exemplary people, nearly every attempt at banding together is corrupt and every solitary leader (and beloved gruff guardian) is some varying degree of murderous. The Fireflies’ plan being an awful one fits the show’s worldview perfectly… “Look for the Light” simply drives home the idea that _The Last of Us_ isn’t about surviving a terrifying reality, but rather clinging to the dreams, and people, we use to cope with existing within it. > **[The Last of Us’ Big Vaccine Reveal Makes No Sense. That May Be the Point.](https://slate.com/culture/2023/03/last-us-finale-hbo-season-1-vaccine-ending.html)** > > To begin with, no one would have to die. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/401 "2023-03-15T16:30:16Z")
This is one of my big frustrations with speculative fiction: figuring out when bad science is meant to be bad science in universe, and when its meant to be good science in universe, but the author doesn’t know/care that he’s getting stuff wrong. If you judge the Fireflies by standards of real-world science, their plan is clearly stupid and their doctor is a quack. But if that’s the case, then Joel is 100% justified in taking Ellie out of there, which sabotages what’s clearly meant to be a huge ethical dilemma. So I think you have to assume, in universe, that the Fireflies’ plan had a decent chance of success. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314/402 "2023-03-15T17:31:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So I think you have to assume, in universe, that the Fireflies’ plan had a decent chance of success. That’s always the way I looked at it, all the way back to when the game first came out. I accepted that there was some way for a cure/vaccine to work. More recently, I’ve come to think that the vaccine/cure is really a MacGuffin in the context of the story. It _doesn’t matter_ whether or not it’s possible in our world or theirs. They key is that Joel, Ellie, and the Fireflies all _believe_ that’s it’s possible. Their motivations and actions are based on that. We never get to a part of the story where we even come close to finding out if it would work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-of-us-tv-show-discussion/978314.md?page=21)