# The last person who was alive in the 19th century just died **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 16, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537 "2017-04-16T01:13:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/61 "2017-04-17T23:02:29Z")
Yes, you have to draw the line somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/62 "2017-04-17T23:09:15Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Well, damn. I’d known there was one left, thanks for the update. > > I used to know quite a few folks from that century, starting with my great grandfather and great grandmother along with my great great granduncle George, born in 1876 and the son of a civil war vet. > > Wonder what notable point in time we’ll age out of next? Most WW II vets are now over 90, but it’ll take a while before we lose the last one of them. If history is any guide, the last veteran dies about ~90 years after the war ends. So the last WW2 vet may die in the 2030s. For me, the last WW2 vets and last people who were alive during the great depression will both be disappointing. That was a lot of history we will lose. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/63 "2017-04-17T23:32:52Z")
> [@Weisshund](#): > > Not sure why anyone would argue what a century is, it is 100 years. > > AD does not start at a year 0, because we humans did not chose to do it that way, so year 1 to 99 is only 99 years, hence the century runs until year 100, the new one starts at year 101 through year 200 etc. I think that’s where there’s some disagreement - my understanding, and certainly for most people I know whom I’ve asked, AD _does_ begin with the year “zero” - much as the first patient to get a horrible disease is called “Patient Zero”, not “Patient One” and potentially serious but as yet unpatched hackable flaws in software are known as “Zero Day exploits”. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/64 "2017-04-17T23:58:32Z")
Fine, the last person who was born in a year that started with 18xx has just died. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/65 "2017-04-18T00:24:32Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I think that’s where there’s some disagreement - my understanding, and certainly for most people I know whom I’ve asked, AD _does_ begin with the year “zero” - much as the first patient to get a horrible disease is called “Patient Zero”, not “Patient One” and potentially serious but as yet unpatched hackable flaws in software are known as “Zero Day exploits”. It used to be common to say ‘In the Year of Our Lord…’ So the first year of Jesus’s life, he was in his first year. Thus, when Jesus was zero to one year old, he was in his first year and the first year was Year 1. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/66 "2017-04-18T02:04:35Z")
I agree with Martini about common usage for years included in century names, but Johnny L.A. is right about Year 1\*. Upshot: the first century AD (and BC, too) had 99 years, while all other centuries have 100 years each. \*I’m reminded of music, where the interval of a “third” (say) is really a “distance” of two whole tones, because the scale starts at 1, not at 0. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/67 "2017-04-18T04:30:09Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I think that’s where there’s some disagreement - my understanding, and certainly for most people I know whom I’ve asked, AD _does_ begin with the year “zero” That’s not a “disagreement,” that’s simply a mistake. AD does not include a year zero, never has, and never will. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/68 "2017-04-18T04:47:51Z")
The OP was wrong to say 19th Century, but the article linked by them says this: > [@](#): > > She was officially the last person born in the 1800s still living. …which is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/69 "2017-04-18T20:17:38Z")
I emailed Cecil a million years ago (probably more like 18 years ago) to clarify when the new millennium started, 2000 or 2001. He, or someone representing him, responded that it starts whenever you want it to. Same for a century. Same even for a decade. For instance, he defined the 60’s as 1963 - 1972 or some such nonsense. I wish I could find that email. Anyway, if you want to say the 19th century was 1800 - 1899, you’re not wrong according to Cecil! ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/70 "2017-04-18T21:03:09Z")
I think we should just decide as a society that the first century was 99 years long and ran from AD 1-99 and the ones that followed were 100 years long. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/71 "2017-04-19T13:43:23Z")
We can fix this if we restart the numbering again. And this time, do it starting with year zero like any self-respecting numerate society would do. So 0-99 is the 100 years of the zeroth Century. Then 100-199 is the first Century. etc. Don’t forget the 12 months are numbered zero through 11 and the 30 days are 0-29. Monday can still be the first day of the week since Sunday is the zeroth day. 🙂 Now all we have to do is come up with a calamity so world-shaking as to make us want to renumber. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/72 "2017-04-19T16:35:02Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > For instance, he defined the 60’s as 1963 - 1972 or some such nonsense. I wish I could find that email. Anyway, if you want to say the 19th century was 1800 - 1899, you’re not wrong according to Cecil! 'The ‘60s’ is a cultural decade, rather than a ‘defined’ decade. Any ten year period is a decade. For example, ‘Jim-Bob, who is 50, is five decades old.’ A _named_ decade or century that begins in the first year of that decade or century, starts at Year 1 and runs through Year 10 or Year 100, respectively. (And since it is a named century, ‘Century’ has a capital C.) There is no way around this, since we have defined ‘first’ as ‘one’, and we started counting from 1. Which makes sense. If someone asks you to count to 10, do you count ‘Zero, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10’? Most people don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/73 "2017-04-19T20:07:04Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > We can fix this if we restart the numbering again. And this time, do it starting with year zero like any self-respecting numerate society would do. > > So 0-99 is the 100 years of the zeroth Century. Then 100-199 is the first Century. etc. Don’t forget the 12 months are numbered zero through 11 and the 30 days are 0-29. Monday can still be the first day of the week since Sunday is the zeroth day. 🙂 > > Now all we have to do is come up with a calamity so world-shaking as to make us want to renumber. :eek: Right, good idea. Defining the 19th Century as 1800 - 1899 relies on either saying the first century had only 99 years, or that it was 0 - 99. If you count years from 0, you would naturally have to count centuries starting from 0 too. I love the idea of asking people in a bar for their opinions. If I were omnipotent ruler of the world, and in a bad mood, I’d go to bars and ask people to find country X on a map. Then I’d go to that country and force all its inhabitants to move to the bar patrons’ consensus of where their country was. ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/74 "2017-04-23T18:06:19Z")
This debate has always been a bit of a mind bender for me. Supposedly there’s no “year zero” but yet there is a “first year”. When a child is born, he is in a sense born in a “year zero” as that’s his “first year”. He’s not “one” until he’s “completed” one year of life (0-1). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/75 "2017-04-23T18:16:40Z")
> [@Mallard](#): > > When a child is born, he is in a sense born in a “year zero” as that’s his “first year”. He’s not “one” until he’s “completed” one year of life (0-1). A child is in his first year, or Year 1. When he has been out of the womb for one year, he is one year old. The second after the exact one-year anniversary of his birth, he is in his second year. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/76 "2017-04-23T18:59:58Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > If history is any guide, the last veteran dies about ~90 years after the war ends. So the last WW2 vet may die in the 2030s. > > For me, the last WW2 vets and last people who were alive during the great depression will both be disappointing. That was a lot of history we will lose. My grandfather told me this weekend that he wants to be one of the last surviving WWII vets and he may very well be. His own grandfather was one the last surviving Civil War vets and lasted until 1949 at just shy of 101 despite doing absolutely nothing to promote his own longevity except for a strict regime of whiskey, cigars and women. My grandfather is 92, still drives and runs his own real estate company. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he makes it past 105 in 2030 to be one of the last WWII vets still standing. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/77 "2017-04-24T12:51:15Z")
> [@Mallard](#): > > This debate has always been a bit of a mind bender for me. Supposedly there’s no “year zero” but yet there is a “first year”. When a child is born, he is in a sense born in a “year zero” as that’s his “first year”. He’s not “one” until he’s “completed” one year of life (0-1). The difference between ordinal and cardinal numbers is a standard part of US education. But like a lot of Math stuff, people flush it from their minds the day after the test. So you are 2 years old in your 3rd year. This off-by-one property should be clear to one and all, but since “it’s just Math” not only are people allowed to immediately forget it but they are also allowed to make horrible arguments against the idea! ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/78 "2017-04-24T13:01:01Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > The difference between ordinal and cardinal numbers is a standard part of US education. But like a lot of Math stuff, people flush it from their minds the day after the test. > > So you are 2 years old in your 3rd year. This off-by-one property should be clear to one and all, but since “it’s just Math” not only are people allowed to immediately forget it but they are also allowed to make horrible arguments against the idea! Exactly. As renowned FBI agent and Oxford-educated Ph.D. Fox Mulder once wisely said, when discussing precisely this issue of when new centuries start: “No one likes a math geek, Scully.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/79 "2017-04-24T13:47:31Z")
The impression is got, that people have been arguing about centuries’ limits, year zero, etc., since forever – with no consensus, and few folk convinced into changing their views. Comes to mind a passage from Solzhenitsyn’s _The First Circle_, in which 1949 is shortly to end, and 1950 to begin; and there’s a heated argument between prisoners in their (by Gulag standards, luxurious) scientific research facility, as to whether this transition marks the mid-point of the 20th century, or not – IIRC, “they kept getting hung up by the question of the exact year of Christ’s birth”. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537/80 "2017-04-24T13:54:01Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I think we should just decide as a society that the first century was 99 years long and ran from AD 1-99 and the ones that followed were 100 years long. 😛 You probably think an ounce of gold should be heavier than an ounce of steel too! 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-person-who-was-alive-in-the-19th-century-just-died/784537.md?page=5)