# The Last Socially Acceptable form of Bigotry **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 24, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140 "2008-08-24T22:40:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/161 "2008-08-26T20:54:50Z")
OK, let me elaborate, because on second thought, the above is not really a good enough answer. > [@](#): > > Say tomorrow morning these plans all come to fruition: a rogue nation detonates the Semantic Bomb, and everyone in the world wakes up believing that the term ‘antisemitism’ refers to bigotry against all Semitic peoples. What’s the fallout from this? How does this profit the forces of darkness? The only possible result I can see would be an increased tendency for Jews and other Semitic peoples to empathize with each other. This is not how things work in the world. People don’t start interpreting a word in a certain way, instantaneously. Jews and Arabs may technically both be Semitic peoples but their cultures are very different. The fact that they believe in different religions, for example, is one huge thing that sets them apart from each other. The fact that they have been fighting each other for half a century, is another. Lumping them together into one group in a MODERN DAY term is absurd. The term “Semitic” is appropriate to use to describe both Jews and Arabs when you’re talking about the ancient world - but now, in this day and age, as has been pointed out so many times, the word’s meaning has changed. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/162 "2008-08-26T20:59:41Z")
I’m just curious why you care so much, **Terrifel**. I’ve explained why it’s important to us; why is it imporatnt to you? Do you truly believe that the fact that there isn’t a specific word for the hatred of Arabs (or blacks, or Asians, or Polynesians) makes people feel entitled to hate them more? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/163 "2008-08-26T21:16:13Z")
Personally, it’s only [del]important[/del] interesting to me in an academic way. I’m trying to raise my child with an interest, and dare I say, a love, for language. This is necessarily going to involve her continually acquiring knowledge of word origins. Okay, “antisemite” will always only refer to Jews, but the Semitic peoples will always include Arabs, as well. _Unless_. . . we can rewrite Genesis, and give Noah another son, who was the **real** ancestor of Ishmael! Who’s up for a group project? ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/164 "2008-08-26T21:54:12Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] I’m just curious why you care so much, **Terrifel**. I’ve explained why it’s important to us; why is it imporatnt to you? Do you truly believe that the fact that there isn’t a specific word for the hatred of Arabs (or blacks, or Asians, or Polynesians) makes people feel entitled to hate them more? [/QUOTE] It’s “important” to me because I got my nuts crushed earlier for citing a Wikipedia factoid, is all. I was trying to figure out why it’s important to _anyone._ It’s just not obvious to me, the outsider. I’m embarrassed to recall that I also bitched at you needlessly in that Forgotten Realms thread the other day, so you know that it’s not just the etymology of ‘antisemitism’ that I’m obstructively sarcastic about. Again, I owe you an apology. I will endeavor not to make a habit of it. **Argent Towers** : thanks also for the sustained attempt to explain the matter. I can’t say that it’s any clearer to me, but the effort is appreciated nonetheless. You may well have been right in your earlier post: there are nuances here that I just don’t “get.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/165 "2008-08-26T22:04:12Z")
Shit, man. Now I feel like \*I’m \* stalking _you_. Let’s call it a night, shall we? ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/166 "2008-08-26T22:12:29Z")
Thanks. Have a good night. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/167 "2008-08-26T23:08:03Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Currently, I think there are at least three acceptable bigotries, depending on your geographic area in the US: gays, the obese, and smokers. [/QUOTE] Do you smoke? There’s two more acceptable bigotries. "People who are intolerant of other people’s cultures and the Dutch. " ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/168 "2008-08-26T23:30:01Z")
Dopers: Please select the response that resonates better with you. \_\_ 😕 \_\_ Piss off, clog-boy. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/169 "2008-08-26T23:31:58Z")
> [@Argent Towers](#): > > I am a Jew and I am not going to stand for your fucked-up, misdirecting, semantic bullshit. I don’t like nasty flakes (just Wheat Chex for me, no sugar–I shit like a dump truck), but I’ll heartily second this part word-for-word. > [@Grumman](#): > > This is a problem that I have with fandom in general. I have no problem with someone who watches cartoons about anthromorphic animals, but that doesn’t mean you have to close ranks with the sickos. Why? If someone happens to get off on something that’s a little weird, but you’re enough of an asshole to completely write him off because you don’t like his porn, I’ll side with the “sicko” if I have to choose. > [@Terrifel](#): > > At the risk of getting reamed on this topic again: it doesn’t strike you as weird at all to invoke Hitler as an authority on how antisemitism should be understood? Sure, he may have thought it meant “bigotry against Jews alone,” but he also thought it was justified. I submit that Hitler’s opinion on these matters is suspect. It doesn’t matter. Modern usage of the words “antisemitism” and “antisemitic” clearly refer to Jews and Jews alone, whether they’re semites or not. Drilling a hole into the etymology and fucking it senseless will get you nothing but a cabal of angry Jews and linguists. What, do you return your mayonnaise if you’re not satisfied that it was made in Mayo, France? _Technically_, the word “mayonnaise” only applies to thinks that originate in Mayo. > [@jayjay](#): > > Well, there are also we word-nerds who look at the word and think “but Arabs are Semites, too…” I’m pulling your word-nerd card. Do you have any understanding of what the purpose of descriptive linguistics, or even of language in general, is? Why don’t you tell me, in a short paragraph or less, why you think we need a generally agreed-upon language and what purpose it serves? Have you taken a linguistics class? Read a textbook on it? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/170 "2008-08-26T23:33:11Z")
\_\_\_ 😕 _ **X** _ Piss off, clog-boy. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/171 "2008-08-26T23:41:13Z")
People are bigoted against smokers? As in, even when they’re _not_ smoking, and not as a reaction to a genuine difference (‘gah, man, you stink like smoke’)? Is this any different from being ‘bigoted’ against people who park on your lawn? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/172 "2008-08-26T23:44:57Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Dopers: Please select the response that resonates better with you. \_\_ 😕 \_\_ Piss off, clog-boy. [/QUOTE] 😕 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/173 "2008-08-27T00:25:14Z")
[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect] I’m pulling your word-nerd card. Do you have any understanding of what the purpose of descriptive linguistics, or even of language in general, is? Why don’t you tell me, in a short paragraph or less, why you think we need a generally agreed-upon language and what purpose it serves? Have you taken a linguistics class? Read a textbook on it? [/QUOTE] So tell me, are Arabs Semitic or not? I’m not advocating the use of the word to refer to Arabs, as I noted in the post you quoted. Overreact much? I can’t be a word-nerd without having had classes in formal linguistics? Who died and made you the gatekeeper to language? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/174 "2008-08-27T00:31:24Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > So tell me, are Arabs Semitic or not? Irrelevant. I’m not a genealogist or a biologist, anyway. What does “antisemitic” mean, and why? Do you return mayonnaise when you are not convinced that it came from Mayo, France? Are you bothered by the fact that mayonnaise made in America is not called “americannaise”? Does it register at all? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/175 "2008-08-27T00:35:10Z")
[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect] Irrelevant. What does “antisemitic” mean, and why? Do you return mayonnaise when you are not convinced that it came from Mayo, France? Are you bothered by the fact that mayonnaise made in America is not called “americannaise”? Does it register at all? [/QUOTE] Jesus, get a grip. I have a minor and admittedly silly little quibble with the difference between the meanings of a word’s components and the meaning of the word taken as a whole, a quibble that I’m not even defending on a daily basis and haven’t even considered important enough to mention to anyone ever except as a two-bit soundbite in a silly message board thread, and you want to give me the 3rd degree? Fuck you. Seriously. I don’t have to defend anything to you. Go jump off a cliff onto a 16" ice blue jelly dildo. That’s my answer to you. Geez… ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/176 "2008-08-27T01:28:55Z")
I’m not convinced that there IS a place named “Mayo” in France, but I suppose no-one wants an extra quibble delivered today. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/177 "2008-08-27T03:57:27Z")
Gender bias – especially against females – is so ingrained that it’s not even being seriously discussed here. That’s because it is truly socially acceptable even among females. Did you have a date last weekend to see a movie? Were most of the characters men or women? Look at the movies that are in the theaters in any given week. Are they primarily about males or females? Look at the 2008 Conventions. Are they primarily about males or females? You could free the world of prejudice against Jews and Arabs, but half of them would still live the second class lives of many women. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/178 "2008-08-27T05:15:51Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] Did you have a date last weekend to see a movie? Were most of the characters men or women? Look at the movies that are in the theaters in any given week. Are they primarily about males or females? [/QUOTE] Hollywood plots tend to be male-centric. Japanese shoji (girl) manga (comics) is female centric and shonen (boy) manga often has strong female characters. Heck, in [harem comedy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harem_comedy), the male center tends towards blandness while the plot tends to drift towards the female characters. Yet American females tend to have fewer glass ceilings than Japanese females, or so I understand. > [@Argent Towers](#): > > I think anyone who’s not Jewish is just never going to “get” this, and should stop trying. I think I got it. I see from the dictionary that a bigot is, “…a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.” Yet people sometimes say that the racist David Duke is a bigot, when actually he’s very tolerant of other opinions. And there’s nothing in that definition about race. People call Ted Bundy a serial killer – nothing could be further from the truth. Serial means, “Of, forming, or arranged in a series” – since when did Bundy put his victims in any sort of pattern? He didn’t form or arrange anything - it was all random and happenstance. “Sequential killer” might be another matter. Some may say that I’m obtuse and a total dick, but I actually just have a fondness for the English language. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/179 "2008-08-27T07:10:51Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] … Do you truly believe that the fact that there isn’t a specific word for the hatred of Arabs (or blacks, or Asians, or Polynesians) makes people feel entitled to hate them more? [/QUOTE] Yes, absolutely. Moreover, the obverse is also true. If we adopt a contemporary use of the word, fewer people will feel entitled to their hate. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2008, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140/180 "2008-08-27T07:27:03Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] Gender bias – especially against females – is so ingrained that it’s not even being seriously discussed here. That’s because it is truly socially acceptable even among females. Did you have a date last weekend to see a movie? Were most of the characters men or women? Look at the movies that are in the theaters in any given week. Are they primarily about males or females? Look at the 2008 Conventions. Are they primarily about males or females? You could free the world of prejudice against Jews and Arabs, but half of them would still live the second class lives of many women. [/QUOTE] Yes. Then again, what about the way the courts treat men when there is a family breakdown? I’ve worked hard, forty hours a week for over twenty years, but I live in a rented one-room apartment. I’ve helped two women buy free-standing homes in this city. And cars. And I can’t see my son. And I’m on a trumped up violence order. The separated dad is the new unspoken victim. Just saying, is all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-last-socially-acceptable-form-of-bigotry/461140.md?page=10)