# The Latest Beheading by Terrorists **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 18, 2004, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127 "2004-06-18T23:06:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/61 "2004-06-19T19:06:54Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > **rjung** , I see now…it’s not the \*act \*that is outrageous; it’s who’s committing it. Right? Much worse for a few renegade U.S. prison workers to misbehave than for an innocent man to be kidnapped and, while his family and friends tearfully and anxiously await his fate, he is barbarically beheaded and body displayed as an example of what awaits further kidnap victims. Here’s a little thought experiment for you. You hear two items on the news on the same day. \*\*(1) A man who has had a long history of violence and criminal acts has murdered his wife by decapitation. (2) The President of the United States viciously hit his wife and forced her to commit humiliating sexual acts against her will, and took pictures of the abuse which the press has managed to get ahold of.\*\* Can you honestly tell me that you will spend more time that evening being outraged by item number one because the act itself was worse than the acts performed in news item two? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/62 "2004-06-19T19:18:53Z")
Lord God Almighty, **Blalron** , where are those pictures?! Are they up on a website? Don’t leave us hanging like that, give! ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/63 "2004-06-19T19:21:25Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Here’s a little thought experiment for you. You hear two items on the news on the same day. > > \*\*(1) A man who has had a long history of violence and criminal acts has murdered his wife by decapitation. > > (2) The President of the United States viciously hit his wife and forced her to commit humiliating sexual acts against her will, and took pictures of the abuse which the press has managed to get ahold of.\*\* > > Can you honestly tell me that you will spend more time that evening being outraged by item number one because the act itself was worse than the acts performed in news item two? Wouldn’t that depend on which party Mr. Hypothetical President belonged to? I mean, if he were from **“my”** party, then of course item #1 would be worse… :rolleyes: What’s worrying is that people seem to be applying this logic in earnest to real life situations :smack: Dani ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/64 "2004-06-19T21:09:06Z")
**Starving Artist** , let me say this more clearly. _You_ may hate the US armed forces, but I don’t. I may disagree with the man who sent them there, but I will not stand by and have you disparage them so severely. STOP COMPARING THE US ARMED FORCES TO TERRORISTS. There should be no question in your mind whether we are better than terrorists or not. ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/65 "2004-06-19T23:22:20Z")
> [@](#): > > The point is to appease the other 99% of Muslims who want the same thing most other people on the planet want - peace and prosperity. One they see that Al Qaeda and the likes are just extremist assholes, the terrorists will find it much harder to operate within their own land. As long as we continue to do things seemingly intentionally to piss off those 99% of Muslims, they will see Osama as more and more correct, and do more and more to support him against us. See, I fundamentally (pun intended) do not understand how this can even be an issue. Let’s say I were Muslim, living in the Middle East. I would think that at some point, I would ask myself the following questions before attempting to say that the U.S. is just as bad or worse than the terrorists. 1. Are there any groups in the U.S. calling for the expulsion of all middle easterns, particularly Muslims, from the sacred lands of the United States, who have driven jets into Riyadh, Mecca, etc. because their demands were not met? 2. Have random Muslims or other middle easterners been abducted off the streets, say in Detroit, and then been beheaded because Osama Bin Laden would not release certain prisoners/stop attacking the U.S./call on the Palestinians to give Israel land? 3. Have any Christian groups in the U.S. made a pronouncement that it is the duty of all Christians to help said Christian group obtain a nuclear weapon so that a random large middle eastern city can be nuked? These are all questions that are pretty simple to ask yourself, in comparing the actions of different groups. I agree, we exploit the hell out of the region. We do severely nasty things that we should not be doing. But although it is hard to imagine how you would think were you of a different culture, nationality, religion, etc., it is hard for me to imagine that I would not ask basic questions such as the above in determining whether my belief system was rational. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/66 "2004-06-19T23:32:18Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > 1. Are there any groups in the U.S. calling for the expulsion of all middle easterns, particularly Muslims, from the sacred lands of the United States, who have driven jets into Riyadh, Mecca, etc. because their demands were not met? > > 2. Have random Muslims or other middle easterners been abducted off the streets, say in Detroit, and then been beheaded because Osama Bin Laden would not release certain prisoners/stop attacking the U.S./call on the Palestinians to give Israel land? 2.5. Did Iraq invade Texas and start building military bases? 2.75. Did Iran carve out a chunk of Oregon to give away? 2.85. Did Saudi Arabia invest controlling shares in America’s only natural resource and hire Mexicans to come in to work? > [@](#): > > 1. Have any Christian groups in the U.S. made a pronouncement that it is the duty of all Christians to help said Christian group obtain a nuclear weapon so that a random large middle eastern city can be nuked? heh, if they thought anyone had anything slightly more advanced, they would demand to know why we hadn’t invented it 10 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/67 "2004-06-20T00:08:52Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > 2.5. Did Iraq invade Texas and start building military bases? Yes, let’s use the logic structure in my original post to answer this question. If a good chunk of middle easterns had the capability to invade Texas, would they do so? Yes. Would, unlike the U.S. army, they begin randomly murdering civilians, as they have already done in other states? Yes. Does that make them at least as bad, if not worse than the U.S.? Yes. Has the U.S. driven a plane into a mosque to “make a point?” No. Has the U.S. picked random Iraqis civilians off the street, demanded that the terrorist actions stop or they would be beheaded? No. Has the U.S. threatened to use nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons against the Iraqi people? No. If Muslim fundamentalists, as Bush is apparently viewed as a Christian fundamentalist, did successfully take over Texas, would they leave? No. Would they attempt to forcibly convert people to Islam? Yes. Has the U.S. army begun forcibly converting the Iraq people to Chrisitianity? No. Good comeback on your part. > [@Zagadka](#): > > 2.75. Did Iran carve out a chunk of Oregon to give away? Did the U.S. carve out Israel? No. When Iraq carved out a “chunk of Kuwait,” did the U.S., who supported the idea of a Kuwaiti state for Kuwaiti people, begin searching for the best way to murder as many Iraqi cvilians as it possibly could in retaliation? No. Could it have murdered every Iraqi civilian? Probably. > [@Zagadka](#): > > 2.85. Did Saudi Arabia invest controlling shares in America’s only natural resource and hire Mexicans to come in to work? Hmmmm. The U.S. controls Saudi Arabian oil and has impoverished the Saudi people. How much money does Osama Bin Laden give to terrorists each year? Where’s he from again? [ > [@Zagadka](#): > > heh, if they thought anyone had anything slightly more advanced, they would demand to know why we hadn’t invented it 10 years ago. We do have it. Christian fundamentalists could have obtained them. In fact, George Bush, the Christian fundamentalist, has been rumored to actually have access to nuclear weapons. If I were the middle eastern people, I’d be afraid. I imagine that he will use them in the future, unless the Arabs are removed from the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/68 "2004-06-20T00:17:56Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > Yes, let’s use the logic structure in my original post to answer this question. If a good chunk of middle easterns had the capability to invade Texas, would they do so? Yes. Would, unlike the U.S. army, they begin randomly murdering civilians, as they have already done in other states? Yes. Does that make them at least as bad, if not worse than the U.S.? Yes. Beep, incorrect. We’ll never know, because they never f_ed with us until we f_ed with them. > [@](#): > > Has the U.S. driven a plane into a mosque to “make a point?” No. Nope, we just use missiles. Using the whole plane is inefficient. > [@](#): > > Has the U.S. picked random Iraqis civilians off the street, demanded that the terrorist actions stop or they would be beheaded? No. Nope, we just rape them with flashlights. > [@](#): > > Has the U.S. threatened to use nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons against the Iraqi people? No. Nope, our conventional weapons are being used against them quite well enough for our purposes. > [@](#): > > If Muslim fundamentalists, as Bush is apparently viewed as a Christian fundamentalist, did successfully take over Texas, would they leave? No. Maybe, maybe not. They haven’t tried. O\_o > [@](#): > > Would they attempt to forcibly convert people to Islam? Yes. Maybe. Dunno, they’ve never invaded Texas. > [@](#): > > Has the U.S. army begun forcibly converting the Iraq people to Chrisitianity? No. Nope, they just pour money into their coffers and hope for the best. > [@](#): > > Good comeback on your part. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/69 "2004-06-20T00:27:33Z")
Take another shot at it, you might come up with something more silly…but I doubt it! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/70 "2004-06-20T00:29:14Z")
The above post should have been addressed to **Hentor the Barbarian**. ---
**Author:** ![Milum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Milum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milum)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/71 "2004-06-20T00:33:50Z")
> [@](#): > > **Starving Artist** : > And not to speak for Milum of course, but I believe his OP was an attempt to point out what he perceives as hypocracy on the part of the anti-war lefties in this forum who were so horrified over the prisoner abuse in Iraq, but were strangely silent in their reaction to a much worse atrocity on the part of the terrorists, because to express anger and outrage would add fuel to the fire of their opponents who favor the actions being taken by the U.S. to combat terrorism. Like it or not **Starving Artist** , your well-said words reflect my heart-felt sentiments much better than my own openning words which chide. By-the-way \*\* Starving Artist\*\*, did you notice a telling incongruity in the responses to this thread by the left? On the one hand the American liberals here insist that we Americans be held to higher standard than that of the Muslims. On the other hand they decry our intrusion and attempt to change for the better the Muslim culture’s sometimes barbaric ways. So we must presume that… (A) Liberals don’t think that Muslims are as good as we Americans and as such we can’t expect them to act as civilized as we. (B) Liberals want other people to remain backwards so that liberals can remain paternalistic and send them Care packages and call them “quaint”. Strange world. ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/72 "2004-06-20T00:34:23Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Beep, incorrect. We’ll never know, because they never f_ed with us until we f_ed with them. Yes, one can state definatively that middle easterners have never “f_ed with us until we f_ed with them.” Islam and the middle east has a long and peaceful history of abiding calmly within its own borders, minding its own business. The U.S., on the other hand, feels a need to “f\* with them” and nastily remove a kind and benevolent leader with the respect and admiration of his own people. Fortunately, the U.S. did not have the weapons that would be necessary to intentionally target office buildings and other structures full of civilians. If the U.S. had such weapons, it is clear that Baghdad would no longer be standing. > [@Zagadka](#): > > Nope, we just use missiles. Using the whole plane is inefficient. Yes, we indeed do have missiles, and fortunately, this has helped us destroy numerous office buildings full of Iraqi civilians. I’m still not sure why we don’t bring out the biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons. After all, we are just as bad as the terrorists, or even worse. We have them; the terrorists would use them, so we should clearly be using them. > [@Zagadka](#): > > Nope, we just rape them with flashlights. Yes, raping criminals with flashlights is akin to abducting random civilians and beheading them. Oh, and thank god that once Osama found out that those who beheaded civilians had done so, that he gave his troops prison sentences. > [@Zagadka](#): > > Nope, our conventional weapons are being used against them quite well enough for our purposes. What do you mean, “well enough?” The middle easterners took out a buildings with 3,000 deaths; they still seem to want nukes, biologicals, and chemicals. From polls, it appears that a large percentage of middle easterns would back the theory that terrorists conventional weapons are not enough, that more death is needed. If the U.S. is worse than the terrorists and deserves what is coming to it, you would think it would at least drop a nuke or two, as the terrorists plan to do. > [@Zagadka](#): > > Maybe, maybe not. They haven’t tried. O\_o Because they cannot. They have done what they can. > [@Zagadka](#): > > Maybe. Dunno, they’ve never invaded Texas. Because they cannot. They can, however, murder civilians. > [@](#): > > Nope, they just pour money into their coffers and hope for the best. But why? Remember, I’m a middle eastern, the Americans are as bad as the terrorists, worse in fact. They are horrible. They have occupied my country, they have guns. They could simply tell me, “Convert, or we will shoot you in the back of the head.” Yet they don’t. They are evil, they are fundamentalists, yet for some reason, they just keep on missing these obvious ways to be even more evil. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/73 "2004-06-20T00:44:37Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > Yes, one can state definatively that middle easterners have never “f_ed with us until we f_ed with them.” Thanks, glad you understand me so clearly. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/74 "2004-06-20T00:52:07Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Take another shot at it, you might come up with something more silly…but I doubt it! :rolleyes: So respect for our armed forces is silly, is it? Well, I remain resolute in the face of your calumny: there is no doubt in _my_ mind that the US armed forces are morally superior to terrorists. If you wish to debate the question, I cannot stop you. And **Milum** , please cite or quote anyone who has said that Americans should be held to a higher standard than Muslims? Or are you again confusing Muslims with terrorists? So, to take your second “point,” I wholeheartedly support intruding with all our might to alter terrorists barbaric ways. I do not support intruding to alter Muslim culture. And I think care packages should go wherever they are needed. ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/75 "2004-06-20T00:52:53Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Thanks You are welcome, I’m glad you came around to my way of thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/76 "2004-06-20T00:56:01Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > You are welcome, I’m glad you came around to my way of thinking. Actually, to be perfectly frank, my guild needed me in CoH. Maybe we can continue this friendly discussion tomorrow! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/77 "2004-06-20T00:59:41Z")
> [@Milum](#): > > Like it or not **Starving Artist** , your well-said words reflect my heart-felt sentiments much better than my own openning words which chide. Thank you for the compliment, **Milum**. (I hoped you wouldn’t mind my speaking to your words.) > [@Milum](#): > > By-the-way \*\* Starving Artist\*\*, did you notice a telling incongruity in the responses to this thread by the left? Indeed I did. Like verbal pinball! Welcome back to the fray. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/78 "2004-06-20T01:03:20Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Thank you for the compliment, **Milum**. (I hoped you wouldn’t mind my speaking to your words.) Ewe, a compliment from **Milum**. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/79 "2004-06-20T01:54:21Z")
Well at least four of those monsters got some of what they deserved when their animal souls were sent to hell by Saudi security. Killing these pigs helps – too bad they couldn’t get’em before they murdered Johnson. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127/80 "2004-06-20T01:57:45Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > Well at least four of those monsters got some of what they deserved when their animal souls were sent to hell by Saudi security. Killing these pigs helps – too bad they couldn’t get’em before they murdered Johnson. I agree (except I don’t know if they had souls, animal or otherwise, nor where said might have gone). Do you think it odd that they got them so quickly right afterward? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-beheading-by-terrorists/251127.md?page=5)