# The latest Bush meme: "the Dem 527s are accusing us of poisining pregnant women" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2004, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883 "2004-08-28T01:19:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/1 "2004-08-28T01:19:45Z")
And it’s a huge exaggeration, in order to claim moral equivalence between the basically factual ads of groups like [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org), and the outright lies of the SwiftLiars. Here’s the story, [as reported by Josh Marshall](http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_08_22.php#003355): > [@](#): > > If you look at the talking points out of the Bush campaign in the last few days one of the key slanders that Democratic 527s have made against the president is the claim that he has been “poisoning pregnant women” > > On August 20th Bush campaign spokesman Taylor Griffin said that Democratic 527s had been “accusing President Bush of poisoning pregnant women.” > > The same day on Wolf Blitzer’s show Retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel Joe Repya, a Bush surrogate debating Kerry surrogate Retired U.S. Air Force General Tony McPeak, said that Democratic “527 groups [had been] alleging that the president is poisoning pregnant women.” > > And to top it all off, the same night on Lou Dobbs show, Jill Dougherty decided simply to cut to the chase and repeat the claim on the Republicans’ behalf, telling Dobbs: Republicans “say that groups funded by the Democrats have accused President Bush of everything from ‘poisoning pregnant women’ to complicity to with what happened at the Abu Ghraib prison.” > > (When you get to the end of this post you might consider contacting Dougherty at CNN and asking whether she made any effort to find out what was behind the charge she repeated.) > > Now, I won’t force upon you every time this has been said by a Bush campaign surrogate or employee in the last week. But I should add that Chairman Marc Racicot has been saying this repeatedly on shows across the dial all week. Supporting links in original. And, as best as Marshall has been able to figure out, here’s what they’re talking about: > [@](#): > > As nearly as I can figure the culprit here is an ad run in March by [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org) and the Environmental Working Group Action Fund. Here’s a segment from CNN from March 26th, 2004 in which Karenna Gore Schiff – Al Gore’s daughter – discusses the ad with CNN anchor Heidi Collins (it also includes the text of the ad) … > > Turning now to an important health issue. There’s an ongoing debate about how safe it is to eat fish, especially for children and pregnant women. Karenna Gore Schiff, daughter of the former vice president says the Bush administration isn’t doing enough to lower the level of dangerous pollutants. I spoke to Karenna Gore about her latest efforts. > (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) > > COLLINS: Karenna, you paired up with [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org) in a campaign that includes an ad that’s very critical about pollution and mercury and I want to go ahead and take a listen, for just a minute, to that ad. > > AD ANNOUNCER: Mercury is a dangerous poison still be produced by coal-burning power plants. It gets into the air, the water, and then into the fish we eat, causing brain damage in children. President Bush has taken a lot of money from the people who own those power plants and now he wants the EPA to change the law to say that mercury isn’t so dangerous. That means our children will go on eating mercury in their tuna, risking brain damage. Tell the EPA not to let this happen. > > COLLINS: Are you really suggesting that the Bush administration is putting babies at risk? > > KARENNA GORE SCHIFF, AL GORE’S DAUGHTER: I think that this policy does put babies at risk, because mercury is a very potent neuro toxin. We know that it comes from coal-burning power plants and we know that the emissions can be reduced dramatically with available technology. But the Bush administration is preventing the plan that was in place from going forward which would make our children safer. Obviously the meaning is there, but there’s a big difference between laying out what appears to be a rational, fact-based case - which is what MoveOn did - and running an add filled with inflammatory language - which is what MoveOn **didn’t** do, but the Bushies are doing their best to imply that they did, in order to play the victim card, and claim moral equivalance between MoveOn and the SwiftLiars, when no such equivalence exists. As Marshall adds, “Republicans are having difficulty – willful or otherwise – in distinguishing between negative and/or hard-hitting ads and ones that peddle demonstrable falsehoods – i.e., smears. (You know, it’s that old, hard distinction between ‘mean’ and ‘untrue’.)” Hard to argue with the man there. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/2 "2004-08-28T02:57:44Z")
In the old country, during the nasty civil war, there was a military general that was made fun on the fact that he virtually saw no action in combat before the civil war. His cavalier attitude in sending many young soldiers to die, gave him the nickname: “Botas Virgo”: Virgin (combat) boots. Bush deserves to be called something like that and worse now, when one realizes that this misleader is an even bigger coward when he hides behind front groups, that do now his political dirty work for him. This administration is based on the premise that Bush is never responsible for anything bad, and they are counting on the American people to condone all his missteps and tall lies: of Tax cuts giving jobs to all, of wars bringing peace, of secrecy bringing trust, and of incompetence bringing security. (Chalabi and Iraq and Iran) And Bush has the impudence of saying that proven lies from swifters against Kerry, have the same value, as ads from groups mentioning the unpleasant truth that Bush is misleading the nation? Mr. Bush, I mean, _Mr. Virgin boots_, you are going to far. As a Hispanic-American that votes (large family), I am ready to work even harder to defeat you in November. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/3 "2004-08-28T03:41:13Z")
It continually astounds. I see these guys saying these kinds of things, and the jaw drops. Take Hannity, for instance. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen him confronted with contradictory testimony from someone he has to recognize knows his shit, and, like a gentleman, he concedes the point. Then the next time you see him, he re-spews the same nugget of crap as before, as though it never happened! I don’t know how many times I’ve heard him drop that turd pearl about MoveOn’s “Hitler” ads. He lives in an envioronment made up of “cite!?”, he can’t possibly not know its road apples. He makes his living not reporting, but reassuring, reassuring people of a set political views that they are right. If he tells them they’re wrong (and sooner or later they must be), they will simply change the channel and he’s out of a job and worse, off TV. If Hannity and Combes had gone to school together, Hannity ripped off Combes lunch money. “Fork it over, Ichabod, and maybe I won’t kick your butt after all.” A running dog jackal of the ruling class, and a dink on top of it. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/4 "2004-08-28T03:55:21Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > of Tax cuts giving jobs to all, > of wars bringing peace, > of secrecy bringing trust, > and of incompetence bringing security. “Little Brother” might be a more appropriate nickname, but it lacks a certain something. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/5 "2004-08-28T03:57:09Z")
There’s liars damn liars and … wait for it … waaaait for it … Republicans! ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/6 "2004-08-28T04:45:00Z")
That’s redundant, but you knew that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/7 "2004-08-28T05:05:30Z")
Hey! I coulda stopped _waiting_? Was someone gonna tell _me_? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/8 "2004-08-28T05:19:45Z")
But seriously folks…and I do mean grimly serious… **A leaked video reveals what Bob Dole really thinks about Bush’s tactics.** “…Democrats now have an unlikely ally in their quest to prove that Bush has a history of these kinds of dirty tricks: Bob Dole…But Dole also made another statement that day, one that hasn’t been aired until now. Of McCain’s charge to President Bush during a 2000 debate—“You should be ashamed”—Dole told Wolf Blitzer, “He was right.” Dole made the remark off-air, while CNN broadcast the Kerry ad called “Old Tricks,” the one featuring McCain’s 2000 debate remarks. The campaign stopped airing it recently at McCain’s request…” [http://www.slate.com/Default.aspx?id=2105781&](http://www.slate.com/Default.aspx?id=2105781&) ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/9 "2004-08-28T05:29:40Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > There’s liars > damn liars > and … wait for it … > > waaaait for it … > > Republicans! Don’t make me have to whup ya 'gin, 'k? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/10 "2004-08-28T06:17:57Z")
> [@](#): > > **GIGObuster** : His cavalier attitude in sending many young soldiers to die, gave him the nickname: “Botas Virgo”: Virgin (combat) boots. > > Bush deserves to be called something like that and worse now. “POTUS Botas Virgo” ? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/11 "2004-08-28T06:45:16Z")
The Bush campaign is having to generate their own negative campaign remarks from the Kerry camp apparently. If Kerry won’t do negative campaign ads, they’ll just pretend he did. I have an idea. Every time the Bush people accuse Kerry of some nonsense, maybe Kerry should make hay out of it. His next ad should be: “President Bush’s campaign claims that they are not trying to poison pregnant women. What would prompt them to say such a thing? What are they trying to hide? If you or someone you love is pregnant, don’t you want to know for sure?” Oh, I have missed my calling… BTW, whichever rep from the Bush Campaign was on Wolf Blitzer on Friday night, August 27, he claimed that Michael Moore sat next to Theresa Heinz-Kerry during the Democratic Convention. Wolf had to correct him. He seemed not to want to be corrected, but Wolf Blizter told him that he was _there_ and that MM sat next to the Carters. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/12 "2004-08-28T06:50:47Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > “POTUS Botas Virgo” ? 😃 Perfect for that “Hijo de POTUS!!” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/13 "2004-08-28T07:54:44Z")
This election can’t be over soon enough. Seems like everyone has already made up their minds… can’t we just all say “Let’s do it next Monday!” and get it over with? 'Twould make me most happy. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/14 "2004-08-28T09:59:26Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > And it’s a huge exaggeration, in order to claim moral equivalence between the basically factual ads of groups like [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org), and the outright lies of the SwiftLiars. It’s sad that people like you, making statements like that, do more to help the Bush campaign than anything Bush could do. I suppose that at a place like Straight Dope, where you’re pretty much preaching to the choir, it’s no big deal. But if you’re still cross-posting or copying from other boards, you’re putting out there the laughable assertion that [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org) is “basically factual”. It’s almost like Nazis claiming the moral high ground by condemning communists. Nobody other than the most partisan hack believes that either party is more honest or less unscrupulous than the other. Nobody other than the most brain-dead thumb-sucker misses the irony of your negative attacks on negativity. But the main thing is, nobody gives a shit. Nobody cares that Bush popped your balloon while you watched in horror from your highchair. Your incessant whining over nothing just reeks of poor loser. When you act like a loser, people assume you’re a loser. And when a loser defends Kerry, it paints Kerry as a loser as well. Quite honestly, the best way you can help Kerry at this point is just to shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/15 "2004-08-28T14:58:34Z")
Gee, that’s a lot of words there **Liberal** , but no challenge to the idea that Move On _is_ basically factual. I’ve seen the video of the little kids working to pay off the debt. Humorous, makes a point, and based in fact. Seen videos of individuals expressing their opinion to the camera. Haven’t seen much else that they have done. I’m ready to believe you, but you need to show me why I should. The fact that you blather on for a whole paragraph, only to be left holding your dick in your hand at the end makes me lean towards the idea that evidence may not be forthcoming. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/16 "2004-08-28T15:16:53Z")
Well, I know that you’re lying and wouldn’t change your mind no matter what evidence was offered, but for the benefit of people who really want to know, one thing that [Moveon.Org](http://Moveon.Org) is doing is using data more than a year old and taken from a labor union to say that the Bush administration has lost more than 3 million jobs ([Cite](http://www.bushin30seconds.org/aboutbush.html)), when that number has already been cut nearly in half and was for jobs in a particular sector (manufacturing) while jobs in other, higher paying and faster growing sectors, are growing ([Cite](http://www.chicagofed.org/publications/fedletter/cflseptember2004_206.pdf)). Again, I don’t believe for an instant that you care about the facts, since you are a partisan hack who sees a post by me and puts his brain in auto-disagreement mode. But the notion that [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org) nobly distances itself from anti-Bush attack ads is equally laugable. In fact, they hand out awards for them. ([Cite](http://www.bushin30seconds.org/).) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/17 "2004-08-28T17:55:16Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Well, I know that you’re lying and wouldn’t change your mind no matter what evidence was offered, but for the benefit of people who really want to know, one thing that [Moveon.Org](http://Moveon.Org) is doing is using data more than a year old and taken from a labor union to say that the Bush administration has lost more than 3 million jobs ([Cite](http://www.bushin30seconds.org/aboutbush.html)), when that number has already been cut nearly in half and was for jobs in a particular sector (manufacturing) while jobs in other, higher paying and faster growing sectors, are growing ([Cite](http://www.chicagofed.org/publications/fedletter/cflseptember2004_206.pdf)). Again, I don’t believe for an instant that you care about the facts, since you are a partisan hack who sees a post by me and puts his brain in auto-disagreement mode. But the notion that [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org) nobly distances itself from anti-Bush attack ads is equally laugable. In fact, they hand out awards for them. ([Cite](http://www.bushin30seconds.org/).) Okay, first of all, you’re being a cunt. Secondly, the information about job losses is apparently erroneous, as far as I know, and should be corrected. They do cite BLS stats through 2003, but it should be sufficient to say that he’s lost 1,000,000. However, all of that information appears to be quite dated, so it should be updated or removed. Notice how old the charges against him are, and the Bush in 30 Seconds campaign was so last year. Secondly, yes I saw your cite that a proportion of a proportion of the jobs being created are high paying. What is the nature of the overall job creation. Why should it be considered a success that some of the jobs are better? Third, your first and third cites are to the same fucking site, you disingenuous piece of shit. Got any current claims, made this fucking year, by Move On that you want to debunk? Also, try to stop being a deceitful fuck with your duplicated cites. Really poor form. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/18 "2004-08-28T18:08:09Z")
They’re two different pages from, um, the fucking organization we’re talking about, snotface. Since they’re both accessible this fucking year (one being the front fucking page, and the other being a fucking link directly from it), you must be asserting that [Moveon.org](http://Moveon.org) has abandoned its own fucking website. Here’s what they fucking say: > [@](#): > > Bush in 30 Seconds is a project of the [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) Voter Fund, **a 527 fund affiliated with [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org)**, the pre-eminent online advocacy group in the United States. The Voter Fund will create and run powerful political ads in swing states to challenge President Bush’s policies and his administration. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/19 "2004-08-28T18:31:13Z")
> [@Astroboy14](#): > > This election can’t be over soon enough. > > Seems like everyone has already made up their minds… can’t we just all say “Let’s do it next Monday!” and get it over with? 'Twould make me most happy. But… but… Then I wouldn’t get my October Surprise! :mad: :: pout :: ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883/20 "2004-08-28T22:07:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Nobody other than the most partisan hack believes that either party is more honest or less unscrupulous than the other. But I see no reason to believe that certain people within both parties are more honest than other people within those parties. I believe that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are not trustworthy. I have a lot more confidence in the integrity of Colin Powell and John Warner. If there has been a thread about “the lies of [moveon.org](http://moveon.org)” I haven’t seen it. But if there has been a lot of evidence that directly contradicts what they have stated, I would like to know about it. No “blind cites” please. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-bush-meme-the-dem-527s-are-accusing-us-of-poisining-pregnant-women/261883.md?page=2)