# The latest civilization ending climate change crisis: methane feedback loops and the big picture **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2014, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-civilization-ending-climate-change-crisis-methane-feedback-loops-and-the-big-picture/695224 "2014-08-10T09:43:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-civilization-ending-climate-change-crisis-methane-feedback-loops-and-the-big-picture/695224/1 "2014-08-10T09:43:34Z")
Basically, as I understand it, the idea is that a lot of methane is trapped under earth, under ground that’s usually frozen. Manmade climate change thaws those places, which releases the methane, which hurries the climate change, creating a snowball effect. There’s some fear that suddenly appearing craters like [this one in Russia](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/08/1320136/-A-top-NOAA-researcher-on-methane-on-Arctic-Craters-something-is-happening-to-the-Earth) herald such an event. Would you panic as much as the commenters? For that matter, given just how many ways humanity can affect the climate, is civilization as we know it doomed to at the least alter drastically, and when, if so? Two generations? Three? It seems that every time you turn around, modern industry has found another way to screw with the climate, and I don’t think anyone thinks that anything is gonna be done about it before it’s too late. It’s sort of like trying to plug a sieve with pieces of toilet paper. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-civilization-ending-climate-change-crisis-methane-feedback-loops-and-the-big-picture/695224/2 "2014-08-10T12:46:14Z")
It’s nothing new, it has been mentioned for many years. Since scientists didn’t seem alarmed, I assume there’s no cause for alarm (I mean fear of a civilization-ending crisis. That it will have a negative impact is a given, I guess). ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-civilization-ending-climate-change-crisis-methane-feedback-loops-and-the-big-picture/695224/3 "2014-08-10T13:10:28Z")
Methane is released when permafrost thaws, and this is already happening in the Arctic, but it’s not just permafrost on dry land that is the issue. There are vast amounts of [methane clathrates](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate#Methane_clathrates_and_climate_change) under the oceans, and these have been hypothesized as the drivers of significant past climate events. The risk is that this kind of feedback might turn out to be more rapid than expected. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-civilization-ending-climate-change-crisis-methane-feedback-loops-and-the-big-picture/695224/4 "2014-08-10T14:03:09Z")
It is of some concern. You’ll find a lot of information/links [here](http://phys.org/news/2013-11-significant-amount-methane-east-siberian.html). ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-civilization-ending-climate-change-crisis-methane-feedback-loops-and-the-big-picture/695224/5 "2014-08-10T15:35:57Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > There’s some fear that suddenly appearing craters like [this one in Russia](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/08/1320136/-A-top-NOAA-researcher-on-methane-on-Arctic-Craters-something-is-happening-to-the-Earth) herald such an event. Would you panic as much as the commenters? If you had asked me a few decades ago I would not as I would had assumed that like in the case of acid rain and CFC that humans would had reacted to the warnings from the scientists. The denial seen in right wing politicians specially in Australia and America has been a drag in increasing the rate of change needed. Add to that the refusal of many to stop listening to the contrarian sources that told us that tipping points like the acceleration of ice loss and this one on the methane would never happen or that the effects would be minimal, means that even though I’m an optimist that technology will keep civilization going, I’m very pessimistic when I look at other typical human behaviours that are/will make a situation that could be overcome into a crisis. Every time I look at immigration and refugee issues it is clear to me that if we prepare (and that takes some serious money and concerted efforts from governments too) we could also overcome the changes; unfortunately, time and time again, I see too many examples of (also too much conservative groups) that would react with hostility to the mass of people that will move from regions of the earth thanks to the loss of territory due to the ocean rise. And that is now more likely thanks to the recent evidence found that the ice tipping point in Greenland and Antarctic regions is here, now one will have to add the increase in temperature the contribution that the release of methane will bring also to the system. What we see here is going from being concerned that evidence pointed to an increase in methane emissions thanks to the increase in heath to finding evidence that the process is indeed taking place and that it may be accelerating is disturbing. Unfortunately the groups that have the ear of conservative politicians continue to deny that even this evidence is being found. > **[Researchers find significant amount of methane escaping East Siberian Arctic...](https://phys.org/news/2013-11-significant-amount-methane-east-siberian.html)** > > (Phys.org) —A combined team of U.S. and Russian researchers has found that large amounts of methane are bubbling up from the subsea permafrost along the East Siberian Shelf. In their paper published in the journal Nature Geoscience, the team... > [@](#): > > But Plekhanov and his team believe that it is linked to the abnormally hot Yamal summers of 2012 and 2013, which were warmer than usual by an average of about 5°C. As temperatures rose, the researchers suggest, permafrost thawed and collapsed, releasing methane that had been trapped in the icy ground. > > Other researchers argue that long-term global warming might be to blame — and that a slow and steady thaw in the region could have been enough to free a burst of methane and create such a big crater. Over the past 20 years, permafrost at a depth of 20 metres has warmed by about 2°C, driven by rising air temperatures1, notes Hans-Wolfgang Hubberten, a geochemist at the Alfred Wegener Institute in Potsdam, Germany. > > Hubberten speculates that a thick layer of ice on top of the soil at the Yamal crater site trapped methane released by thawing permafrost. “Gas pressure increased until it was high enough to push away the overlying layers in a powerful injection, forming the crater,” he says. Hubberten says that he has never before seen a crater similar to the Yamal crater in the Arctic. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-civilization-ending-climate-change-crisis-methane-feedback-loops-and-the-big-picture/695224/6 "2014-08-27T11:47:37Z")
[More on this.](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/underwater-methane-gas-plumes-erupting-along-atlantic-coast/) Frankly, I’m a little surprised that anyone thinks there’s any other issue that matters right now. I mean, the extinction of human civilization as we know it kind of strikes me as a big deal. I really do fear for the kids in my family and their quality of life when they’re adults.