# The latest in abortion insanity **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 12, 2016, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590 "2016-05-12T03:11:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/201 "2016-05-19T05:00:55Z")
> [@Commodore](#): > > I would say that a person who aborts a healthy child is a just a moron. > > Any one who believes they have the right to murder another I think would support just killing anyone because that was their whim at the time. > > Children have rights I say and the baby in the mothers body is the most unsafe place to be in the year 2016 that says a lot for society now doesn’t it, backwards as in my opinion. > > I don’t know how a person could live with themselves, many women have a hell of a problem years after such that I know of. Two things: 1. Just because you say a child has rights doesn’t mean that is true. In fact, until they’re viable/born, the government disagrees with you, and their opinion matters more than yours. and 1. “backwards as in my opinion” (your words quoted above) means that you recognize that your own opinion is backwards. I’m glad you think so, so I don’t have to tell you that your opinion is backwards. Also, are people morons if they were raped and became pregnant, and decided to get rid of the baby? If your daughter was (Og forbid) raped, and became pregnant from that encounter, are you really okay with potentially further damaging her psyche by forcing her to carry that kid to term? Even if she gave it up for adoption, she would have to go through every single day reliving that trauma over and over. And you would have to watch a physical reminder of her assault every day. And you think aborting a fetus is cruel?? Hypothetical time: Let’s assume you’re young (say, between 25-35. I don’t know you, and I have no idea how old you are, so just indulge me here). And your wife is around the same age. She’s attacked one night leaving her office, and is raped. She ends up pregnant from that rape. She goes to the police and files a police report. The rapist is arrested, and found “not guilty” at his trial. DNA tests were done that prove he fathered the child, but reasonable doubt exists as to the rape. Let’s say that he then files for visitation of that child. And the court approves it. How would you feel about him coming to your house on weekends to see his child? This man that violated your wife in the worst possible way, and now you have to let him in your house. Do you think the mental anguish you and your wife would go through would be more tolerable than just getting rid of the pregnancy and trying to rebuild yourselves? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/202 "2016-05-19T05:24:22Z")
> [@Commodore](#): > > Any one who believes they have the right to murder another I think would support just killing anyone because that was their whim at the time. > > Children have rights I say But most people think that a fertilized egg, embryo or fetus with no neurological function, and which in many cases can’t even be seen with the naked eye, should not be considered a “person” or a “child”, and aborting it should not be considered “murder”. [QUOTE=Commodore] I don’t know how a person could live with themselves, many women have a hell of a problem years after such that I know of. [/QUOTE] I doubt it. Most women who have had abortions have no regrets or guilt, and feel they made the right decision. (See above about a minuscule embryo not being the same thing as a child, so aborting it doesn’t count as murder.) Women in general think very seriously about pregnancy, motherhood and abortion before deciding to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. They don’t need a lot of legislatively mandated “abortion theater” in order to be trusted to make their own decisions about their bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/203 "2016-05-19T05:24:57Z")
> [@Commodore](#): > > . . . the baby in the mothers body is the most unsafe place to be in the year 2016 . . . You haven’t driven on the freeway recently. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/204 "2016-05-19T14:30:38Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > And believing it’s wrong at all stages after conception, is highly correlated with religion. The doesn’t mean everyone believes it due to religion, and it doesn’t mean those people are “brainwashed.” Somebody could just as easily accuse you of being brainwashed by, I don’t know, public schools or liberal professors or whatever they want to use. It’s just as disrespectful and stupid and lazy an argument. > [@](#): > > And I never said that\* liberal political thinking was incompatible with religion\*, so your objection is pretty much goofy. Sure you did. > [@](#): > > Again, that’s not the issue, putting the date at conception forward is the issue. Your thinking on this is muddled, because, I assume, See, that’s your problem - assuming things that other people think. My motivations are irrelevant. And only I can tell you what they are. > [@](#): > > Cool on you, you respect people of faith. So do I. I can respect someone, and think their position on certain issues is due to indoctrination. No. You can’t. > [@](#): > > I even said that there are secular people against abortion. So you admit that you were wrong when you said you’d assume anyone who was a political liberal but opposed abortion was brainwashed by religion. Cool. > [@](#): > > But those people, are rare, so given that I know Qin (or at least his socially crippled posting style) and know he’s a bible thumping goofball, this guides my assumption. He asked about people like him, not just him. Nevertheless, whatever. Telling someone their beliefs are wrong because they are “brainwashed” or “indoctrinated” is lazy and disrespectful. It gives you the power to say whatever you want without actually arguing, and steals the right of someone else to speak for themselves. In fact, it’s a bit like…religion. Ironic. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/205 "2016-05-19T15:01:02Z")
> [@Commodore](#): > > I would say that a person who aborts a healthy child is a just a moron. What’s a “child?” When does it become a “child?” What do you mean by “healthy?” It is illegal to kill a child after it is born, even if it is “non-healthy,” so why shouldn’t the same apply to a child not yet born? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/206 "2016-05-19T15:39:16Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > The doesn’t mean everyone believes it due to religion, and it doesn’t mean those people are “brainwashed.” > > Somebody could just as easily accuse you of being brainwashed by, I don’t know, public schools or liberal professors or whatever they want to use. It’s just as disrespectful and stupid and lazy an argument. > > Sure you did. > > See, that’s your problem - assuming things that other people think. > > My motivations are irrelevant. And only I can tell you what they are. > > No. You can’t. > > So you admit that you were wrong when you said you’d assume anyone who was a political liberal but opposed abortion was brainwashed by religion. Cool. > > He asked about people like him, not just him. > > Nevertheless, whatever. Telling someone their beliefs are wrong because they are “brainwashed” or “indoctrinated” is lazy and disrespectful. It gives you the power to say whatever you want without actually arguing, and steals the right of someone else to speak for themselves. In fact, it’s a bit like…religion. Ironic. I think I’ll join the majority of people on this board and check the “total moron” box beside your name. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/207 "2016-05-19T17:55:56Z")
FWIW, I certainly don’t consider **lance** a moron. But his calling people rude and disrespectful? That’s kind of like **andros** calling someone a snarky asshole: it might well be _true_, but it’s hard to take the source seriously. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/208 "2016-05-19T18:01:56Z")
holy shit - probably deserves its own thread - [The Oklahoma Legislature has passed a bill that would criminalize abortion procedures in the state.](http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/19/politics/oklahoma-abortion-criminalization/index.html) [QUOTE=article linked to above] According to the language of the bill, anyone found to have performed an abortion – except in instances to save the life of the mother – can be found guilty of a felony and receive up to three years in prison. Gov. Mary Fallin has not said whether she will sign the bill. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/209 "2016-05-19T18:07:16Z")
> [@andros](#): > > FWIW, I certainly don’t consider **lance** a moron. > > But his calling people rude and disrespectful? That’s kind of like **andros** calling someone a snarky asshole: it might well be _true_, but it’s hard to take the source seriously. I don’t think I’m ever rude or disrespectful. Aggressive, yes. I’m certainly rude to people I think are being rude, but I’m proud of that. And your swipe at me wasn’t necessary. Just point out that his post was rude and offensive and don’t excuse it. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/210 "2016-05-19T18:35:17Z")
> [@simster](#): > > holy shit - probably deserves its own thread - > > [The Oklahoma Legislature has passed a bill that would criminalize abortion procedures in the state.](http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/19/politics/oklahoma-abortion-criminalization/index.html) Wow. They aren’t screwing around. At least they are honest about their intentions instead of playing political or legal games. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/211 "2016-05-19T18:49:54Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Wow. They aren’t screwing around. At least they are honest about their intentions instead of playing political or legal games. But thats just it - there is no way this can past a constitutional test in the court system - so its nothing but a political and legal game. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/212 "2016-05-19T18:55:09Z")
> [@simster](#): > > But thats just it - there is no way this can past a constitutional test in the court system - so its nothing but a political and legal game. Well, yes - unless they think they actually can pass the test. I don’t think so, but maybe they are deluded enough to think it will work. Let’s put it this way - they’re playing a game, and they’re all-in. None of this pretending they won’t put women in prison for abortion or rape-and-incest exception nonsense. They’re going for broke. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/213 "2016-05-19T18:56:44Z")
> [@simster](#): > > But thats just it - there is no way this can past a constitutional test in the court system - so its nothing but a political and legal game. But it’s also a waste of public time and public money that could better be spent elsewhere. I think it’s bad news when the public gets fucked over like this, even if it’s a state I don’t live in-crap like this brings us all down. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/214 "2016-05-19T19:17:17Z")
Perhaps the Oklahoma Legislature should just pass secession legislation, and simply leave the United States. It has about as much chance of being upheld as this pile of crap. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/215 "2016-05-19T19:32:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But it’s also a waste of public time and public money that could better be spent elsewhere. I think it’s bad news when the public gets fucked over like this, even if it’s a state I don’t live in-crap like this brings us all down. without a doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/216 "2016-05-19T19:50:25Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Well, yes - unless they think they actually can pass the test. I don’t think so, but maybe they are deluded enough to think it will work. > > Let’s put it this way - they’re playing a game, and they’re all-in. None of this pretending they won’t put women in prison for abortion or rape-and-incest exception nonsense. They’re going for broke. One of the articles I read about this mentions that the sponsor is hoping that this will lead to the repeal of Roe vs Wade. If y’all want, I’ll try to track down a cite for that. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/217 "2016-05-19T20:03:43Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > The doesn’t mean everyone believes it due to religion, and it doesn’t mean those people are “brainwashed.” Once again, I didn’t say that. You’re pissed because you are projecting on what I did say. Can you quote where I said everyone who is anti-abortion is because of religion? I specifically said otherwise. You’re foaming because you’re imposing what you think I said on the actual words. > [@](#): > > Somebody could just as easily accuse you of being brainwashed by, I don’t know, public schools or liberal professors or whatever they want to use. It’s just as disrespectful and stupid and lazy an argument. Someone could. However, in this case, I’ve seen Qin’s posting habits enough to think in his case, it’s indoctrination. > [@](#): > > Sure you did. No I didn’t, you fucking liar. Please post where I said that or retract it. > [@](#): > > See, that’s your problem - assuming things that other people think. > > My motivations are irrelevant. And only I can tell you what they are. I assume based on information I’ve gathered. Unlike you, who are telling me outright lies about what I said. > [@](#): > > No. You can’t. Of course I can. I work with an evangelical. I know the point in his life when he was saved. He was going through a hard time. I know that it brings him comfort. But he pretty blindly believes what they tell him. He’s otherwise smart, funny, and a good person. I think his religion is shit, but he is a good person. I respect him, just not the wedge of his judgement that decides on religion. Similarly, someone might respect my admirable traits, but look down on my choice of hobby, explaining obvious shit to fucktards on the interwebs. > [@](#): > > So you admit that you were wrong when you said you’d assume anyone who was a political liberal but opposed abortion was brainwashed by religion. Cool. You’re a liar. I didn’t say that. So fucking take it back, if you don’t mind. I said, \*\*"I’d personally assume you’re brainwashed by your religion. There are secular pro-lifers, of course, but they’re pretty rare in my experience. The fact that you awkwardly use the term “cuck” suggests you have a fucked up view of sexuality.\*\*" > [@](#): > > He asked about people like him, not just him. And I told him what I think his situation is. I specifically said there are secular anti-abortion people, but that they are rare. > [@](#): > > Nevertheless, whatever. Telling someone their beliefs are wrong because they are “brainwashed” or “indoctrinated” is lazy and disrespectful. It gives you the power to say whatever you want without actually arguing, and steals the right of someone else to speak for themselves. In fact, it’s a bit like…religion. Ironic. What do you think about your utterly, and without reservation lying about what I said? Is that ironic you fucking pucker? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/218 "2016-05-19T20:05:06Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I don’t think I’m ever rude or disrespectful. Aggressive, yes. I’m certainly rude to people I think are being rude, but I’m proud of that. > > And your swipe at me wasn’t necessary. Just point out that his post was rude and offensive and don’t excuse it. You are certainly aggressive, but I’d say lying about what I said is both rude and disrespectful. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/219 "2016-05-19T22:36:28Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > One of the articles I read about this mentions that the sponsor is hoping that this will lead to the repeal of Roe vs Wade. > > If y’all want, I’ll try to track down a cite for that. No need - I’m not surprised to hear that. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590/220 "2016-05-19T22:40:35Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Can you quote where I said everyone who is anti-abortion is because of religion? But I didn’t say THAT either. Let’s not get into a you said this, no I didn’t thing. I’ll save that for arguments with my wife. > [@](#): > > Someone could. However, in this case, I’ve seen Qin’s posting habits enough to think in his case, it’s indoctrination. Fair enough. > [@](#): > > No I didn’t, you fucking liar. Please post where I said that or retract it. I retract it. Sorry. > [@](#): > > What do you think about your utterly, and without reservation lying about what I said? Is that ironic you fucking pucker? My objection was with the way you accused someone of being “indoctrinated” and dismissing his opinion based on that. That is wrong. It is lazy. That part I don’t retract. You should never do that to anyone, just as nobody should do it to you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-in-abortion-insanity/754590.md?page=12)