# The latest Mister Gropeyhands? Bush 41. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 26, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891 "2017-10-26T14:48:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/21 "2017-10-26T19:14:01Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > As a liberal and a feminist, I’m done with it. She accused him, he admitted it and apologized without trying to weasel out of it. He gets some slack for being 93 with Parkinson’s and most likely mental deficits. Seriously? He did not apologize, his PR people did. And from the looks of it, not the first or last time it happened. And “some slack”? Come off it, the guy is a wheelchair-bound dementia patient. You think impulse control is the only thing he lacks? My grandmother, in the last few bedridden months of her life, began a new hobby; boob grabbing. It actually became a bit of a badge of honor amongst women in my family to have been grabbed. She also started spouting off racist nonsense. Or as we called it, became a grabber and a gabber. Old age is a bitch. Leaves people with no dignity of any sort. I hope when the actress is in her 90’s, people around her treat her with more compassion than she has afforded Bush I. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > (I wonder however, in view of this, if Lt. Bush in WW2 at a liberty port was all over the barmaids’ asses. ) From what I have read about his service, he had a reputation for being a bit of a prude and a boy scout. His one combat tour\* was a difficult one incidentally, he was shot down twice and on one of these his crew was all killed (he was the pilot) and he blamed himself, he was and is unsure if he bailed out too soon. So he might have done stuff in a moment of weakness. - He had orders for a second one when Japan capitulated. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/22 "2017-10-26T19:14:57Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Help my comprehension. I read this: > > as suggesting that woman will falsely accuse him of harassment. Did you intend some other meaning? If not, why do you think it is important to raise the possibility of false accusations here? Do you think it is a common problem, and potentially related to the two accusations already lodged? Not my fight, but try being straightforward. You read it wrong the first time, and now you’ve looked it over and realized your mistake. But instead of being upfront about it, you’ve simply changed your line of attack. Rather weaselly, I’m afraid. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/23 "2017-10-26T19:18:55Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > As a liberal and a feminist, I’m done with it. She accused him, he admitted it and apologized without trying to weasel out of it. He gets some slack for being 93 with Parkinson’s and most likely mental deficits. Yeah, this is how I feel. Women shouldn’t be shit upon for standing up and saying what happened to them. If it turns out they lied, then that’s bad and they should be criticized for it. But in this case she didn’t lie (at least according to the Bush team) – she told the truth. Standing up and telling the truth about being groped shouldn’t be criticized by anyone. Shame on anyone who’s trying to shit on her for telling the truth. She didn’t call for his arrest; she didn’t call for his murder; she didn’t say he was a monster; she simply stood up and told the truth about something that happened to her. That’s always okay to do. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/24 "2017-10-26T19:25:40Z")
FWIW, I thought Helena was saying she was “done with it” in that the incident was satisfactorily resolved from her perspective. In that there were mitigating factors and in that circumstance an apology was enough. As to whether she should or shouldn’t have reported it, I’m kind of ambivalent. On the one hand, she has a right to say what happened to her. On the other hand, if she’s just tossing it into the current Weinstein-induced frenzy, then she’s saying something that has a high likelihood of being misinterpreted and exaggerated. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/25 "2017-10-26T19:29:31Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I say combination of those two. He has impaired impulse control and his behavioral conditioning back when he had it together was different to begin with, as in to not look upon it as serious business. Now, this is explanation, NOT justification, of course. I don’t know the man, of course, but this is my presumption as well. Look back at movies from the 40s and 50s. An older man pinching a woman’s butt was a common gag. I’ll assume (until shown otherwise) that the middle-aged, in-possession-of-all-faculties George Bush would not have pinched a woman and made a lewd joke. But elderly George Bush, with his filter and impulse control getting weaker and weaker, is acting like the “comical” dirty old man of prior generations If so, his handlers deserve some blame for not keeping him out of trouble. One of the articles said Barbara said “Not again!” in one incident. So it sounds like this has been a somewhat common occurrence lately. Maybe it’s time to organize his public appearances so he’s not within arm’s reach of random women. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/26 "2017-10-26T19:33:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yeah, this is how I feel. > > Women shouldn’t be shit upon for standing up and saying what happened to them. If it turns out they lied, then that’s bad and they should be criticized for it. But in this case she didn’t lie (at least according to the Bush team) – she told the truth. Standing up and telling the truth about being groped shouldn’t be criticized by anyone. Shame on anyone who’s trying to shit on her for telling the truth. She didn’t call for his arrest; she didn’t call for his murder; she didn’t say he was a monster; she simply stood up and told the truth about something that happened to her. That’s always okay to do. Errrr, no. Here [is her now deleted post.](https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/read-heather-lind-full-deleted-instagram-post-george-h-w-bush.html/?a=viewall). ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/27 "2017-10-26T19:41:22Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > But this? Overblown bullshit, that is (IMO) designed to get an actress publicity. It also helps to shit on the very worthy “Me Too” campaign. It diminishes it. It makes REAL victims less likely to be believed. This sounds a lot like OJ looking for the real murderer, David Duke pointing out the real racists, and Sean Hannity pointing out the real sexists. The real sexual assault is… spoiler alert… a man grabbing a woman’s ass without consent and thinking it’s a big damn joke. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/28 "2017-10-26T19:49:00Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Not my fight, but try being straightforward. You read it wrong the first time, and now you’ve looked it over and realized your mistake. But instead of being upfront about it, you’ve simply changed your line of attack. Rather weaselly, I’m afraid. Just not getting you. My initial read was that he suggests women make up these accusations. I’ve now gone back twice, and I read it the same way. I welcome correction if I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/29 "2017-10-26T20:00:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It doesn’t have to be as bad as Weinstein to still be bad. **Groping women who don’t consent is wrong**. It’s appropriate for anyone to publicly talk about being groped if they so choose. Doesn’t mean Bush 41 is the worst monster in history, but it does mean that he groped a woman and can reasonably be criticized for it. It’s probably because I have a cold and am feeling pretty shifty, but I want to pick a nit here. Groping **anyone** who doesn’t consent is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/30 "2017-10-26T20:07:19Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Just not getting you. My initial read was that he suggests women make up these accusations. I’ve now gone back twice, and I read it the same way. I welcome correction if I’m wrong. I doubt if you’re legitimately confused, but in case anyone else is, I’ll clarify further. Your first assertion (post #15) was that EP was saying “the women”, i.e. the women accusing Bush, “made it up” past tense, i.e. made up those specific incidents. You took umbrage and accused him of looking for a way to mitigate those accusations after his first attempt had failed. When he accused you of misreading him, you went back and reread his post and realized he wasn’t commenting about the women who had already publically accused Bush, but was speculating about what might happen in the future. So you needed to switch horses. So you (#20) dropped the accusation that EP had said those women made it up, and came back with a new and subtler line of attack, in saying that when EP brought up the suggestion that some women might lie in the future he must be doing it with the ulterior motive of introducing some element of doubt as to the claims of these current women as well. If you want to do that, the appropriate approach is to drop the earlier claim and make clear that you’ve come up with a new one, instead of trying to subtly change horses and hope no one notices. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/31 "2017-10-26T20:12:06Z")
I make allowances for the ravages of time upon a person. But I’d like to know what simpleton is arranging these photo ops. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/32 "2017-10-26T20:20:27Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > FWIW, I thought Helena was saying she was “done with it” in that the incident was satisfactorily resolved from her perspective. In that there were mitigating factors and in that circumstance an apology was enough. > > As to whether she should or shouldn’t have reported it, I’m kind of ambivalent. On the one hand, she has a right to say what happened to her. On the other hand, if she’s just tossing it into the current Weinstein-induced frenzy, then she’s saying something that has a high likelihood of being misinterpreted and exaggerated. What did I say that disputes this? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/33 "2017-10-26T20:21:26Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I doubt if you’re legitimately confused, but in case anyone else is, I’ll clarify further. > > Your first assertion (post #15) was that EP was saying “the women”, i.e. the women accusing Bush, “made it up” past tense, i.e. made up those specific incidents. You took umbrage and accused him of looking for a way to mitigate those accusations after his first attempt had failed. > > When he accused you of misreading him, you went back and reread his post and realized he wasn’t commenting about the women who had already publically accused Bush, but was speculating about what might happen in the future. So you needed to switch horses. So you (#20) dropped the accusation that EP had said those women made it up, and came back with a new and subtler line of attack, in saying that when EP brought up the suggestion that some women might lie in the future he must be doing it with the ulterior motive of introducing some element of doubt as to the claims of these current women as well. > > If you want to do that, the appropriate approach is to drop the earlier claim and make clear that you’ve come up with a new one, instead of trying to subtly change horses and hope no one notices. He was entirely consistent. You’re entirely fucked in the head. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/34 "2017-10-26T20:21:27Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Errrr, no. Here [is her now deleted post.](https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/read-heather-lind-full-deleted-instagram-post-george-h-w-bush.html/?a=viewall). I don’t see anything that runs counter to what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/35 "2017-10-26T20:30:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What did I say that disputes this? I wasn’t specifically disputing you. I wasn’t sure what you meant in agreeing with Helena, and also thought there might be other factors to consider in whether to reveal the incident at this particular time. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/36 "2017-10-26T20:53:29Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I doubt if you’re legitimately confused, but in case anyone else is, I’ll clarify further. > > Your first assertion (post #15) was that EP was saying “the women”, i.e. the women accusing Bush, “made it up” past tense, i.e. made up those specific incidents. You took umbrage and accused him of looking for a way to mitigate those accusations after his first attempt had failed. > > When he accused you of misreading him, you went back and reread his post and realized he wasn’t commenting about the women who had already publically accused Bush, but was speculating about what might happen in the future. So you needed to switch horses. So you (#20) dropped the accusation that EP had said those women made it up, and came back with a new and subtler line of attack, in saying that when EP brought up the suggestion that some women might lie in the future he must be doing it with the ulterior motive of introducing some element of doubt as to the claims of these current women as well. > > If you want to do that, the appropriate approach is to drop the earlier claim and make clear that you’ve come up with a new one, instead of trying to subtly change horses and hope no one notices. I think we’ve identified the source of the reading comprehension issues, and it ain’t me. My original complaint was about his suggestion that women make up these accusations. I’ll try to use smaller words for you next time. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/37 "2017-10-26T20:55:18Z")
If you meant that then you would have said that. But I think you meant what you said. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/38 "2017-10-26T20:57:04Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I wasn’t specifically disputing you. I wasn’t sure what you meant in agreeing with Helena, and also thought there might be other factors to consider in whether to reveal the incident at this particular time. I agree that, IMO, the matter is essentially closed unless others have similar stories and want to come forward. And while there might be many factors that go into whether someone chooses to reveal such a story, I don’t think it’s possible to evaluate these from outside, and thus I think it’s always up to the individual whether or not to tell their story, and I think it’s wrong to ever judge someone for telling the truth about something that happened to them. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/39 "2017-10-26T21:21:32Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I doubt if you’re legitimately confused, but in case anyone else is, I’ll clarify further. > > Your first assertion (post #15) was that EP was saying “the women”, i.e. the women accusing Bush, “made it up” past tense, i.e. made up those specific incidents. You took umbrage and accused him of looking for a way to mitigate those accusations after his first attempt had failed. > > When he accused you of misreading him, you went back and reread his post and realized he wasn’t commenting about the women who had already publically accused Bush, but was speculating about what might happen in the future. So you needed to switch horses. So you (#20) dropped the accusation that EP had said those women made it up, and came back with a new and subtler line of attack, in saying that when EP brought up the suggestion that some women might lie in the future he must be doing it with the ulterior motive of introducing some element of doubt as to the claims of these current women as well. > > If you want to do that, the appropriate approach is to drop the earlier claim and make clear that you’ve come up with a new one, instead of trying to subtly change horses and hope no one notices. This is fucking rich coming from you when earlier this week in the Trump associate Russian collusion thread you misread a post and defended that misreading in increasingly bizarre ways until the poster you misread laid the matter to rest stating unequivocally that your interpretation was incorrect. We’re still waiting for you to drop the earlier claim and make clear that you’ve come up with a new one, instead of trying to subtly change horses and hope no one notices. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/40 "2017-10-26T21:32:25Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > This is fucking rich coming from you when earlier this week in the Trump associate Russian collusion thread you misread a post and defended that misreading in increasingly bizarre ways until the poster you misread laid the matter to rest stating unequivocally that your interpretation was incorrect. We’re still waiting for you to drop the earlier claim and make clear that you’ve come up with a new one, instead of trying to subtly change horses and hope no one notices. You’re confusing two things. Those things being 1) changing one’s argument and pretending that it’s the same as what you’ve been saying all along, and 2) simply dropping a discussion. (If you can’t make elementary distinctions like this, it’s hardly surprising that you might have been unable to follow that other discussion.) It’s a matter of forum rules. As I understand it, once someone says “I meant X” you can’t keep arguing that he meant Y even if you still believe it to be true, because you’d be effectively accusing a poster of lying in the Election forum, where this is against the rules. So at that point the conversation has to end, if it happens to be in the Election or GD forum. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891.md?page=3)