# The latest Mister Gropeyhands? Bush 41. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 26, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891 "2017-10-26T14:48:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/61 "2017-10-27T14:10:19Z")
I’m having a bit of a problem reconciling he didn’t actually apologize, so we can’t infer guilt, it was just a lackey saying it. At the very same time, his behaviour is being excused away as the result of onset dementia. But has anyone heard that from a Dr? Just conjecture, or just some inference from a lackey? Or are men looking for an excuse to pardon such behaviour because they have been guilty of same? How do you know how aggressive he was? You say he’s lost his filter, remember. How is it you’re willing to jump to his defence, not knowing? How does that not matter? Maybe these are all just conclusions you’re willing to jump to, to defend him. All while saying,“But I believe her.” But…she should cut him some slack? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/62 "2017-10-27T14:53:41Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > One difference between me and many other posters here is that while many others primarily think of you as an annoying sanctimonious scold, I think your defining characteristic is your incredible stupidity. The irony, it burns. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/63 "2017-10-27T15:08:02Z")
Still smarting, eh? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/64 "2017-10-27T17:18:09Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > > > One difference between me and many other posters here is that while many others primarily think of you as an annoying sanctimonious scold, I think your defining characteristic is your incredible stupidity. > > The irony, it burns. I’m no **F-P** booster but that was a pretty well-crafted dig. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/65 "2017-10-27T17:46:43Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > He is clearly not yet fully demented, or even badly. Apparently he still knows what is going on and can carry on social conversations, it’s just social judgment of what is appropriate and ability to control his urges that is badly failing. Restricting his social encounters will have bad effects for his mood and level of happiness and might even accelerate how fast he deteriorates. AFAICT nobody is suggesting that President Georgie-Porgie should be left to rot in solitary confinement or that he should be deprived of sympathetic carers who will know how to handle his inappropriate behavior. Just that he should no longer be making public appearances if he is incapable of behaving himself in an appropriate and dignified manner. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Since he doesn’t know what he is doing is inappropriate, he won’t understand why he should be “punished” by suddenly being restricted to his own home. No doubt the attention and praise he receives at these events makes him happy. I bet the idea that he still can play a role, still be able to help worthy causes by making these appearances is wonderful for him mentally. Boo fucking hoo. I, like many other people nowadays, am pretty much over this “won’t somebody please think of the molesters?” attitude. He’s an immensely wealthy and powerful man with crowds of family and staff available to cater to his mental health. Other people should not be expected to put up with gross and inappropriate behavior from him just because it might hurt his poor widdle feefees to exclude him from the events he’s no longer able (or willing) to behave appropriately at. And indeed, if this were any other kind of gross and inappropriate public behavior besides “mere” casual sexual harassment of women, nobody would dream of expecting people to put up with it. If, for example, he were opening his fly in front of cameras or pulling at people’s neckties or spitting on their shoes, he would be whisked out of the public eye immediately. It’s only ingrained societal misogyny that gives rise to the attitude that groping women’s bodies is somehow a more “trivial” or “natural” form of misconduct that ought to be treated more tolerantly. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Reporters, and people seeking to use him to publicize their causes will continue to seek him out. Having to explain over and over why he can’t help will be awkward and painful for Barbara Bush, or whoever the task falls to. Tough shit. The statesmanlike thing to do in such a situation would be to make it a teaching moment for better public understanding of dementia and sexual harassment/assault. They should make an announcement along the lines of _“President Bush is unfortunately struggling with health issues that prevent him from demonstrating the level of decorum and respect he has always felt he owes to the public. It would be cruel to place him in situations where he will inadvertently fall short of his own high standard of behavior.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/66 "2017-10-27T17:53:07Z")
Seeing one incredibly annoying twit chastising another annoying twit is pretty funny. This is kind of like watching a slap-fight between Urkel and Sheldon Cooper. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Still smarting, eh? Frankly, I can’t recall how you think you might have scored on me in the past. (But I’m sure you’ll start crowing about it.) You don’t make that much of an impression beyond being highly annoying. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’m no **F-P** booster but that was a pretty well-crafted dig. He isn’t really worth much effort. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/67 "2017-10-27T18:10:26Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Seeing one incredibly annoying twit chastising another annoying twit is pretty funny. So that’s why you decided to join in, huh? > [@](#): > > Frankly, I can’t recall how you think you might have scored on me in the past. I don’t recall specifics right now, and can’t be bothered to look it up. But in general, I recall your issue. What you are is an old guy whose self-esteem and sense of worth is overly wrapped around your self-image as a knowledgeable guy (possibly your life has not been successful in other ways, but that’s speculation). The thing is that you actually are pretty knowledgeable and are an asset to this board in that regard. But your problem is that as a result of your inflated self-image, you can’t accept that your limitations. So in many instances, especially involving animal life and related subjects, when you don’t know something you just bluff it. And then when someone treats your speculation as what it is, instead of the Guidance from on High that you’d like for it to be treated as, you go off the deep end. We’ve had several interactions along these lines but again I’m not about to start searching for it. I wouldn’t be surprised if your memory is similar and you’ve just decided to adopt a pompous “above it all” stance in line with your “isn’t really worth much effort” pretense, but it’s possible that it’s actually true. But no difference either way. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/68 "2017-10-27T18:11:19Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I’m having a bit of a problem reconciling he didn’t actually apologize, so we can’t infer guilt, it was just a lackey saying it. At the very same time, his behaviour is being excused away as the result of onset dementia. But has anyone heard that from a Dr? Just conjecture, or just some inference from a lackey? I didn’t mean that he possibly wasn’t guilty of doing it. I’m saying that he might not be able to comprehend that he SHOULD feel guilty over what he did. Flunkies often automatically issue apologies without the primary necessarily knowing that anything is amiss. I was a flunky – a secretary – for decades. I apologized for my boss many times a day: oh, Mr. X is so sorry he couldn’t get back to you! He was tied up in meetings all day yesterday. When, actually, the boss might very well have simply forgotten or not wanted to talk to him, and he certainly had no idea of what I was saying in that moment. \ Just one of the ‘buffering’ duties of my job. > [@](#): > > Or are men looking for an excuse to pardon such behaviour because they have been guilty of same? How do you know how aggressive he was? You say he’s lost his filter, remember. How is it you’re willing to jump to his defence, not knowing? How does that not matter? Maybe these are all just conclusions you’re willing to jump to, to defend him. > > All while saying,“But I believe her.” But…she should cut him some slack? Well, I’m not a man, and I quite certainly have never groped any woman’s butt, or an unwilling man, for that matter. As for ‘how aggressive’ – we’re talking about a 90 year old guy who has been confined to a wheelchair for five years, and wasn’t a hulking line-backer type at any point. And, yes, I do believe it happened as they said, and yes, I still think women could (and maybe should) use some discrimination in making complaints like this public. Look at the severity of the ‘assault’, the circumstances, was there any actual damage, threat or danger to her?, and the offender’s condition and maybe other factors. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/69 "2017-10-27T18:23:43Z")
**Kimstuj** the elder abuse advocate. Not surprised to be frank since the concept of nuance and critical thinking is alien to her makeup. Seriously, I half expected her to call for old people to be euthanized. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/70 "2017-10-27T18:30:40Z")
The way I see it, the Bush issue is now out in the open, and anyone who interacts with him knows what to expect. So everyone can make their choice as to whether whatever they might be getting out of meeting him - promoting their interests and/or career, meeting an ex-president, whatever - is worth the possibility of some of this type of inappropriate behavior from a 93 year old guy. I would guess many women would think it’s worth it and many would think it’s not, and everyone gets to decide for themselves. Though it’s also possible that he and/or his handlers will be more strenuous about avoiding this type of thing going forward now that they know it can lead to very bad publicity. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/71 "2017-10-27T18:46:30Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I can honestly say that I didn’t see this one coming. Bush 41 groping women from his wheelchair while making a “David Cop-a-feel” joke. ([One random link out of many](http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/article180982831.html).) Really? There have been rumors for decades that he’s pretty handsy. I thought it was common knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/72 "2017-10-27T18:55:51Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > So that’s why you decided to join in, huh? Why not? This is the Pit. Why the fuck did you join in? > [@](#): > > I don’t recall specifics right now, and can’t be bothered to look it up. But in general, I recall your issue. So a pompous self-inflated asshole thinks I’m self-inflated. I can live with that. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/73 "2017-10-27T19:16:17Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Why not? This is the Pit. Why the fuck did you join in? I see my point was a bit too subtle for you, evidently. > [@](#): > > So a pompous self-inflated asshole thinks I’m self-inflated. I can live with that. Not surprising. You may well be used to that sort of thing by now. Your delusion is in thinking that other people care about your own comparable opinions. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/74 "2017-10-27T19:35:30Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I see my point was a bit too subtle for you, evidently. > Not surprising. You may well be used to that sort of thing by now. Your delusion is in thinking that other people care about your own comparable opinions. Actually, \*\*Colibri \*\*is probably one of the most well respected members on this board, not even hit Mod hat and boots can detract from that. I don’t know you at all, but I know many of us, especially those interested in science, do care about his opinions and posts. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/75 "2017-10-27T19:37:53Z")
I agree. I said earlier that he is knowledgeable in certain fields and adds to the board in that regard. My later comment was about his comparable opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/76 "2017-10-27T19:44:24Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I agree. I said earlier that he is knowledgeable in certain fields and adds to the board in that regard. My later comment was about his comparable opinions. Again, it’s ironic that someone with little actual knowledge of biology and fond of making ignorant speculations about it is upset because I’ve called him on it at times. I can live with that. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/77 "2017-10-27T19:45:37Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I agree. I said earlier that he is knowledgeable in certain fields and adds to the board in that regard. My later comment was about his comparable opinions. Again, it’s ironic that someone with little actual knowledge of biology and fond of making ignorant speculations about it is upset because I’ve called him on his vacuous bullshit at times. I can live with that. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/78 "2017-10-27T19:46:39Z")
It sounds like you can live with all sorts of things, which is great, because you have to. In this particular case it sounds like what you can live with is your own delusions. Which is great too, as a coping mechanism. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/79 "2017-10-27T19:49:27Z")
Hmm, duplicate posts plus further follow-up edits. Maybe you can’t live with it after all. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891/80 "2017-10-27T20:20:25Z")
**FP** , you seem to have a pathological need to always have the last word. Is that a coping mechanism? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-mister-gropeyhands-bush-41/799891.md?page=5)