# The latest Racist Fire to be fanned? Black Panther charges dropped. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 8, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-racist-fire-to-be-fanned-black-panther-charges-dropped/545957 "2010-07-08T14:10:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-racist-fire-to-be-fanned-black-panther-charges-dropped/545957/161 "2010-07-17T22:54:00Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Because the Black Panthers is a militant racist organization. If the church advocates drunkenness and the precinct supports cops being violent, I’d suspect official involvement in those two situations too. That’s a valid point. So there may be a slightly better reason to suspect it’s a pattern of behaviour. If they were instructed to do so why didn’t we hear anything about other incidents? Without any evidence or a comparable incident its a big mistake to jump from vague possibility to “probably so” Where do you get your information about them advocating violence or voter intimidation or anything like that. Advocating for a minority you think is oppressed is not in itself racist. You might be interested in knowing that according to the [NBP site](http://www.newblackpanther.com/newsite/news2.html) They suspended the individual who brought the weapon because he deviated from party policy. Of course they are probably the liars in this case. Just look at em. Although their platform is indeed racical and they do advocate defending themselves against racial violence aimed at them they do not advocate violence or voter intimidation. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-racist-fire-to-be-fanned-black-panther-charges-dropped/545957/162 "2010-07-18T00:49:52Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Where do you get your information about them advocating violence or voter intimidation or anything like that. > **[pw: philadelphia weekly online](http://web.archive.org/web/20071121193041/http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/view.php?id=6580)** > [@](#): > > Minister Louis Farrakhan suspended Khallid from the Nation in 1994 after he gave a speech at New Jersey’s Kean College and referred to Jewish people as “bloodsuckers” and the Pope as a “no-good cracker.” > > Four years later Khallid was elected national chairman of the New Black Panther Party for Self Defense (NBPP), which was founded in Dallas in 1989 to revive the radical legacy of the original Panthers. > > In the summer of 1996 the NBPP called on blacks to use shotguns and rifles to protest the Dallas school board chairman who had been secretly taped calling black students “little niggers.” . . . > [@](#): > > King goes into a litany about police brutality, and how operations that supposedly target violent crime are just a tactic aimed at eliminating black youth. And then he seriously amps up the rhetoric. > > “Police brutality is still rampant,” he says, citing the Cincinnati incident. “Right now, as we speak, a pig is whipping a nigga’s ass–right now, right here in Philadelphia, whether we hear about it or not. The police don’t give a fuck. They will never give a fuck. The pigs’ ass whippings are never going to stop until we start whipping the crackers’ asses. So the next pig or pigs that beat on a brother or sister in Philadelphia, they gonna have a major problem. The New Black Panther Party will be right on their asses.” > [@](#): > > His two tattoos, one under each eye, on his chocolate brown skin serve as a reminder of the decision he’s made. On the right are two black teardrops for his two friends who were murdered by street violence. On the left is “7OD.” The seven represents the mathematical equation for God, which he says is to remind him that the Asiatic black man is the god of the universe and the white man is evil. (The “7” takes the place of the “G” in “God.”) > > “I’m proud to be a Panther,” says King. “We don’t ease up. We’re going to keep putting our foot up the white man’s ass until they understand completely. We want freedom, justice and muthafuckin’ equality. Period. If you ain’t gonna give it to us, muthafucka, we’re gonna take it, in the name of freedom.” > **[News & Politics - The Village Voice](https://www.villagevoice.com/front/news-and-politics/)** > [@](#): > > In a series of Goebbels-like shouts aimed at evoking the correct responses from the crowd, Shabazz asked, among other things: > > “Who is it that caught and killed Nat Turner?” > Audience: “The Jews!” > > “Who is it that controls the Federal Reserve?” > “The Jews!” > > “Who is it that has our entertainers . . . and our athletes in a vise grip?” > “The Jews!” > **[News & Politics - The Village Voice](https://www.villagevoice.com/front/news-and-politics/)** > [@](#): > > As we prepare to close out this rally, we want you to be steadfast. Look these bastards in the eyes, and if anyone attacks you, already decide who will be the one to disconnect the railing where you are, and beat the hell out of them. . . .The no-good bastards! And if you don’t have a gun, every one of them has one gun, two guns, maybe three guns. In self-defense, if they attack you, take their goddamn guns from them and use their guns on them! In self-defense. Giuliani is known for taking his police and sending them off in riots. If any one of these bastards riots here today, you take their nightstick the way they did brother Abner Louima and ram it up their behind and jam it down their damn throats! ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-racist-fire-to-be-fanned-black-panther-charges-dropped/545957/163 "2010-07-18T03:31:47Z")
[quote=“Captain\_Amazing, post:162, topic:545957”] [http://web.archive.org/web/20071121193041/http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/view.php?id=6580](http://web.archive.org/web/20071121193041/http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/view.php?id=6580) I appreciate the links. I can’t give much weight to articles from 10 years ago about a guy who died 9 years ago. THat doesn’t really tell me much about about what the NBP are promoting now. I liked the Philly weekly article. It seems clear that King is a radical angry racist man. That’s one individual. It said they had what 4 members in Philly? I think elucidator has thier number. My guess is they imagined that by standing there in thier costimes they were defending a black neighborhood and maybe recruiting , rather than any intent in voter intimidation. The whole concept being promoted by Bartle Bull that somhow they’re enforcers for the legions of ACORN bogus voters seems to be like some crazy conspiricy theory except it’s a major network channel pushing the story as if it had merit. Honest, I think the level of consistent dishonesty from Fox is a much more dangerous to our society than the panthers. Here they are becoming recruiters for the Panthers by fanning the racial fires. Then if recruitment is good they’ll gigle and point to them again and say “Told Ya So” It’s not only dishonest, it’s incredibly irresponsible, for profit. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-racist-fire-to-be-fanned-black-panther-charges-dropped/545957/164 "2010-07-18T18:37:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Do you mean public meetings as in meetings that are open to the public, or meetings of civic government nature? > > Look: the New Black Panthers are full of shit in way numberless to man. This is political theater. The lie they are telling is not that white people are to be intimidated from voting, but that black people need protection from white intimidation. Like I said, they are trying to steal the mojo of the original Black Panther Party, and that sort of public demonstration of resistance to white intimidation was what made them famous. Did they have a point? Yes, they did, but thank Og, that time is past. Does the Newbie Black Pussy Party have such a point? No, they don’t, which is why they are a trivial storefront bunch of wannabes of no significance whatsoever, save for the significance you have lent them. > > Congratulations, you are doing your level best to make them important. Without you, they would have been relegated to a passing mention on the local news and a police report. Which is more than they deserve in the first instance. Thanks to Fox Gnaws, they will have a doubling or tripling of dues paying members, no more than half of whom will be undercover agents. > > Hmmm. Has anyone alerted that O’Keefe fellow? Right up his alley, it would seem to me. No, Fox News, the Tea Party and Bartle Bull are doing their level best to make the New Black Panthers important. I hadn’t given the Black Panthers a thought in years. But since these “pundits” have attempted to make a mountain out a mole hill, it is worth commenting at this time on the hypocrisy of their cries about responsibility, just like it’s worth committing on the fact that public meetings called by any organization are theirs to control. If they choose to. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-racist-fire-to-be-fanned-black-panther-charges-dropped/545957/165 "2010-07-18T18:45:22Z")
That’s “commenting on the fact.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-racist-fire-to-be-fanned-black-panther-charges-dropped/545957/166 "2010-07-18T19:46:54Z")
Similar to “teaching the controversy”. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-racist-fire-to-be-fanned-black-panther-charges-dropped/545957/167 "2010-07-18T20:18:49Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I appreciate the links. I can’t give much weight to articles from 10 years ago about a guy who died 9 years ago. THat doesn’t really tell me much about about what the NBP are promoting now. I liked the Philly weekly article. It seems clear that King is a radical angry racist man. That’s one individual. It said they had what 4 members in Philly? The guy who died 9 years ago was the one who founded the organization, and King Samir Shabazz is the current head of the Philadelphia branch of the organization and the one with the nightstick at the polling place. The head of the organization is Malik Zulu Shabazz, who was the one who led the call and response about how the Jews killed Nat Turner, controls the federal reserve and all that. So, yes, these are just single individuals, but they’re single individuals that make up the leadership of the New Black Panthers. They aren’t just random members. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-racist-fire-to-be-fanned-black-panther-charges-dropped/545957/168 "2010-07-18T21:48:39Z")
Got two bits that says before this incident, you had never heard of them. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-racist-fire-to-be-fanned-black-panther-charges-dropped/545957/169 "2010-07-18T22:25:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Got two bits that says before this incident, you had never heard of them. I have, because I keep an eye on anti-Semitic people and groups, especially Khalid Abdul Muhammad, who was a high muckamuck in and official spokesman of the Nation of Islam before getting involved with the New Panthers. This incident did probably bring the group to national attention, though. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-racist-fire-to-be-fanned-black-panther-charges-dropped/545957/170 "2010-07-19T01:03:42Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The guy who died 9 years ago was the one who founded the organization, and King Samir Shabazz is the current head of the Philadelphia branch of the organization and the one with the nightstick at the polling place. The head of the organization is Malik Zulu Shabazz, who was the one who led the call and response about how the Jews killed Nat Turner, controls the federal reserve and all that. > > So, yes, these are just single individuals, but they’re single individuals that make up the leadership of the New Black Panthers. They aren’t just random members. I know I read em. It’s just that 10 year old events and attitudes have questionable relevence. As for King being leader of the Philly chapter, didn’t your own link say it had 4 members? How big a concern should that be? Concerning this thread, still no evidence that the organiztion as a group knew and approved of his carrying a weapon to the pollong place. In fact their site says just the opposite. If anything they are usig all the negative attention they are getting to recruit. As far as who poses a bigger threat to the direction we are going in as a country, I’d say it’s a popular TV channel that poses as news as they spread lies to serve a political agenda. They don’t care if thier lies help with NBP recruiting as long as they can smear Holder and the Obama administration. We have serious problems in this country and that crap disgusts me. They are actually encouraging racism and fanning the fire. The point of the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-racist-fire-to-be-fanned-black-panther-charges-dropped/545957/171 "2010-07-19T01:42:24Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I know I read em. It’s just that 10 year old events and attitudes have questionable relevence. As for King being leader of the Philly chapter, didn’t your own link say it had 4 members? How big a concern should that be? Seven years ago, it had four people,. And I don’t think that ten year old events and attitudes have questionable relevance if the people haven’t changed their views in the past ten years. I haven’t been paying particular attention to Fox News, so I can’t tell you what they’re saying about this. But I think that the government needs to pay more attention to extremist organizations, and I think the way the government has handled this case has been a disgrace. Maybe there was nothing they could have done against the organization as a whole, although they must have thought they could when they included the group in the lawsuit, but they should have done something against the people who were actually carrying weapons. I’ve found a timeline and cast of characters involved in the case. It was put together by somebody associated with the Heritage Foundation, so that’s obviously a right wing group, and is going to want to criticize the Obama administration, but as far as I know all the actual information is correct. Could you take a look at it and let me know if there are any inaccuracies? > **[The New Black Panther Party Case: A Timeline](https://www.dailysignal.com/2010/07/16/the-new-black-panther-party-case-a-timeline/)** > > To clarify the issues at stake in the New Black Panther case, The Heritage Foundation has compiled two timelines from news reports — including The Washington... Read More > **[The New Black Panther Party Case: Cast of Characters](https://www.dailysignal.com/2010/07/16/the-new-black-panther-party-case-cast-of-characters/)** > > Editor’s Note: The Heritage Foundation drew heavily from The Washington Times and other news reports to compile this cast of characters. From the New Black... Read More ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-racist-fire-to-be-fanned-black-panther-charges-dropped/545957/172 "2010-07-19T14:36:21Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > … but they should have done something against the people who were actually carrying weapons… “Person” not “people”. Singular. One. A person. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-latest-racist-fire-to-be-fanned-black-panther-charges-dropped/545957/173 "2010-07-19T16:50:17Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Seven years ago, it had four people,. And I don’t think that ten year old events and attitudes have questionable relevance if the people haven’t changed their views in the past ten years. > > I haven’t been paying particular attention to Fox News, so I can’t tell you what they’re saying about this. But I think that the government needs to pay more attention to extremist organizations, and I think the way the government has handled this case has been a disgrace. Maybe there was nothing they could have done against the organization as a whole, although they must have thought they could when they included the group in the lawsuit, but they should have done something against the people who were actually carrying weapons. > > I’ve found a time line and cast of characters involved in the case. It was put together by somebody associated with the Heritage Foundation, so that’s obviously a right wing group, and is going to want to criticize the Obama administration, but as far as I know all the actual information is correct. Could you take a look at it and let me know if there are any inaccuracies? > > [The New Black Panther Party Case: A Timeline](http://blog.heritage.org/2010/07/16/the-new-black-panther-party-case-a-timeline/) > [The New Black Panther Party Case: Cast of Characters](http://blog.heritage.org/2010/07/16/the-new-black-panther-party-case-cast-of-characters/) If you don’t know what they are saying then how can you judge that the governments handling is a disgrace? Obviously you got enough information from somewhere to make an impression. What information is included, what is left out, and how is presented is part of the slant of presentation. ftr I agree that militant groups like the NBPP should be kept track of, within reasonable limits and certainly within the law. Regardless of hatefully rhetoric and displays at gatherings they should be judged for their actions. I’ll address the time line. > [@](#): > > Tuesday, Nov. 4, 2008 > The New Black Panther Party, which is recognized as a violent, racial hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League, announces on its website that more than 350 of its members will be “deployed” in 15 cities across the country to “ensure that people of color … are ensured their right to vote” and to “provide security protecting our people in the face of real and confirmed” white supremacist group threats. Is this on it’s face , completely unacceptable? We may argue that it’s no longer necessary but that doesn’t make it illegal and it seems their goal is voter protection rather than voter intimidation. Of course it doesn’t give us any indication of how much of this was actually done, but it’s significant that out of all these numbers there was one incident of one guy carrying a stick. Does that seem like the NBPP knew and approved of his actions? > [@](#): > > Shabazz uses racial epithets and brandishes a two-foot-long nightstick. The two are caught on tape, and multiple witnesses, including poll watchers Michael Mauro, Chris Hull, and Bartle Bull, say voters, poll watchers, and others were intimidated We have an example of one racial comment aimed at Bull and friend. Nothing in the video. In fact he seems calm and controlled and non threatening. Who were the other multiple witnesses? Fact is no voters lodged a single complaint. Even if the charge is ATTEMPTED voter intimidation doesn’t justice require that we have decent evidence? We’ve got the testimony of three GOP poll watchers and nothing else. I also find it significant that in the face of blatant voter intimidation these witnesses didn’t stay there very long. In this camera phone age why isn’t there any more evidence? So what exactly happened. There was a complaint and the police arrive and make King Shabazz leave the area. The 2nd man who is a registered Dem poll watcher and never had a weapon, is allowed to stay. > [@](#): > > The Department of Justice files a lawsuit in Philadelphia against the NBPP, and conspirators Malik Zulu Shabazz, Jackson and King Samir Shabazz. Without any evidence that King had the direction from the NBPP the DOJ includes Malik in the suit. It’s also significant to note that the BUSH DOJ decided that there wasn’t enough real evidence to file a criminal suit and filed a civil one. That detail is left out of the time line. > [@](#): > > Because the defendants missed the deadline to file an answer, the trial team files notice of default with the court. This is interesting. I’ve heard from several sources that they didn’t show up, as if it was a court date in a courthouse. Apparently it wasn’t even that. Because it was a civil they were only required to file an answer which they missed. This says nothing about the amount of evidence the DOJ does or does not have. > [@](#): > > The trial team is ordered to dismiss case against the NBPP, chairman Malik Zulu Shabazz, and Jackson. It seems clear to me that there was no evidence at all against Malik. Can anybody who isn’t trying to score political points to make Holder and Obama look bad admit this simple fact. It also seems within the bounds of reason that there was no significant evidence that Jackson had committed an offense. > [@](#): > > Court enters default judgment against defendant King Samir Shabazz. The injunction is extraordinarily narrow compared with the original drafted by the trial team. He is enjoined only from carrying a weapon near polling places within the city limits of Philadelphia, and the injunction lasts only until Nov. 15, 2012. The injunction does not cover other acts of intimidation or other racial threats at any Philadelphia polling place, and he is not prohibited from doing anything at any polling place outside of Philadelphia It was always only a civil case, so what exactly were terms drafted by the trial team. Here’s another misdirection. There were professional lawyers on both sides of this argument. Some thought it should be pursued and some disagreed as professionals often do. It’s not as if everyone involved thought they should be prosecuted and Holder stopped them from doing it. There was also desent on the Civil Rights Commission. Some wanted to pursue it and some didn’t. If you really examine the details of the case I think the DOJ acted within the bounds of reason. They took action against the one man who carried a weapon. You may not agree it’s severe enough but keep in mind it was always only a civil case and this is more than other DOJ officials did in more severe cases. That means , though still imperfect, the Obama DOJ is an improvement. Yo might want to go back and read the Media matters links earlier in the thread if you haven’t already done it. It seems obvious to me from the tone of these links that they are implying that it’s a race thing and they got off easy because they were black. I don’t see that at all and I think those actively fanning the fires of this fear over and over and over again are political opportunist purposely appealing to the worst of human nature for their own selfish reasons. In my book that makes them as bad as Shabazz. It’s irresponsible and shows a disregard for the serious issues we face. 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