# The law DOES require them to separate children from their families **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 18, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339 "2018-06-18T21:15:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/81 "2018-06-19T23:17:03Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The problem is, for the left it was never about saving the children, it was about finding some facet of the issue to try and force the prosecutions to stop. For this person, me, it was about stopping children from being forcibly removed from heir parents. Any other issues can take a back seat to stopping this egregious and obvious wrong-headed action. It’s good to know that you (think you) have an inside track into _what those leftists are REALLY about_, tho, and from here on out I’ll filter your posts accordingly. ETA: Your post is particularly loathsome because it tries to pin the Democrats as the ones using these children as pawns in a political game, but everyone knows it’s the Republicans doing this, all on their own. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/82 "2018-06-19T23:18:26Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > And how has that policy worked? We have 2,000 children since May. It seems like a different strategy is needed as illegal border crossings continue despite this wonderful ten year policy of catch and release. Has it occured to you that maybe its because these people are fleeing in fear? And that the situation has gotten worse, so more of them are doing so? That maybe they are begging at our border because they have no other choice? The odds of success may not have improved, it may have gone down, from one in five to one in a thousand. But if that all you got… How many of them would carry their children to the border on their backs, and throw them over the fence to get them safely in America? Even if they were not likely to see those kids again, they would be safe from whatever horror they are fleeing from? Do I flatter myself that I have that kind of courage? Well, I certainly hope so, and would be reluctant to judge anyone who didn’t. But if they do, would I accept such people as neighbors, even countrymen? You bet. When we have _too many_ such people, then maybe I’ll worry. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/83 "2018-06-19T23:23:10Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > For this person, me, it was about stopping children from being forcibly removed from heir parents. Any other issues can take a back seat to stopping this egregious and obvious wrong-headed action. Yes, but you’re not the one that the OP was against. > [@](#): > > It’s good to know that you (think you) have an inside track into _what those leftists are REALLY about_, tho, and from here on out I’ll filter your posts accordingly. Then why is Schumer refusing? Remember, this is not a defense of the policy. I am pointing out a flaw that hurts the attempt to stop that policy, and others like it. If you filter me, you’re filtering out the guy advising you to bath once a day and exercise regularly just because those things make you angry and so clearly the guy is wrong to advise them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/84 "2018-06-19T23:26:02Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > See, this is the problem with the popular portrayal: > > [http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/393069-schumer-rejects-gop-proposal-to-address-border-crisis](http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/393069-schumer-rejects-gop-proposal-to-address-border-crisis) > > Because it is being sold to the public as a “family separating” issue rather than a “criminally prosecuting everyone” issue, that gives the Republican party the opening to say, “Well, so, we’ll keep them together.” > > The problem is, for the left it was never about saving the children, it was about finding some facet of the issue to try and force the prosecutions to stop. Now that the GOP says “Sure!” to the separations aspect, the Dems look like they’re just refusing for slimy reasons (e.g. to keep the negative press against the administration). It puts them between a rock and a hard place. If they accept the deal, then they can’t attack the prosecutions any more, and if they don’t then suddenly they;re the ones splitting up families. This is ridiculous. This administration put into place this new policy for deterrent reasons. They want it in place. If they were saying “sure” to ending the separations, then they’d _end the fucking separations_, which is entirely within their power. But they don’t want to, since the separations have deterrent value in their eyes. The Democrats have no power here. The WH has all the power here. It’s a joke to pretend that there’s anything the Democrats can do on their own on this. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/85 "2018-06-19T23:27:01Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Yes, but you’re not the one that the OP was against. > > Then why is Schumer refusing? You should not negotiate with hostage takers. > **[Why Trump Is Using Hostage Tactics on Family Separation](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/06/why-trump-is-using-hostage-tactics-on-family-separation.html)** > > It’s a way for him to avoid taking responsibility for his own policy. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/86 "2018-06-19T23:27:28Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Then why is Schumer refusing? Refusing what? And why do you think Schumer doing something means “the left” is doing it? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/87 "2018-06-19T23:30:00Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Then why is Schumer refusing? Refusing what? He can’t bring a bill to a vote. McConnell can do that. Separating the kids is the policy of this WH, and this WH can end it very easily. The GOP is certainly grateful for your efforts to blame Schumer or other Democrats for an unpopular policy that Trump put into place, but it would be laughable if thousands of kids weren’t suffering because of the WH’s policy decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2018, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/88 "2018-06-19T23:30:26Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The problem is, for the left it was never about saving the children, it was about finding some facet of the issue to try and force the prosecutions to stop. Now that the GOP says “Sure!” to the separations aspect, the Dems look like they’re just refusing for slimy reasons (e.g. to keep the negative press against the administration). It puts them between a rock and a hard place. If they accept the deal, then they can’t attack the prosecutions any more, and if they don’t then suddenly they;re the ones splitting up families. This is pretty much bullshit. It definitely is about family separation. Schumer’s position is that Trump can and should stop family separations immediately. McConnell’s position is that the legislature should use the same process as the legislative DACA fix. Schumer is quite clear on why he thinks McConnell’s solution is bullshit, “How many times has immigration legislation passed in this Congress? How many times? Zero. It’s an excuse by our Republican colleagues who feel the heat, don’t want to attack the president, even though they know legislation will take a very long time and is unlikely to happen.” If McConnell puts a bill with a real fix on the floor and Schumer still opposes it, you may have a point, but that is extraordinarily unlikely to happen. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/89 "2018-06-20T00:02:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Has it occured to you that maybe its because these people are fleeing in fear? And that the situation has gotten worse, so more of them are doing so? That maybe they are begging at our border because they have no other choice? The odds of success may not have improved, it may have gone down, from one in five to one in a thousand. But if that all you got… > > How many of them would carry their children to the border on their backs, and throw them over the fence to get them safely in America? Even if they were not likely to see those kids again, they would be safe from whatever horror they are fleeing from? > > Do I flatter myself that I have that kind of courage? Well, I certainly hope so, and would be reluctant to judge anyone who didn’t. But if they do, would I accept such people as neighbors, even countrymen? You bet. When we have _too many_ such people, then maybe I’ll worry. Do you let poor and/or homeless people sleep in your living room? Invited them into your house for dinner? Do you pick up hitchhikers? The vast majority of these people are decent and just need a break. But you don’t do it because you might be subject to the one that is a criminal. Isn’t the United States allowed to have the same policy? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/90 "2018-06-20T00:03:27Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Do you let poor and/or homeless people sleep in your living room? Invited them into your house for dinner? Do you pick up hitchhikers? The vast majority of these people are decent and just need a break. But you don’t do it because you might be subject to the one that is a criminal. Isn’t the United States allowed to have the same policy? Countries aren’t people. This has always been a silly metaphor, and still is. And if I was the richest man in the world, you can bet your ass I’d let a lot of homeless people sleep on my property. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/91 "2018-06-20T00:10:54Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Do you let poor and/or homeless people sleep in your living room? Invited them into your house for dinner? Do you pick up hitchhikers? The vast majority of these people are decent and just need a break. But you don’t do it because you might be subject to the one that is a criminal. Isn’t the United States allowed to have the same policy? What are you even talking about? Not only is the US allowed to have a no picking up hitchhikers policy, the US has had a no picking up hitchhikers policy since 1952. Here’s a question for you… a month after hitchhiking, should one be required to sue the government to determine the location of one’s child? This question also doesn’t make any sense, but maybe you’ll take a crack at since you are ignoring the ones that do. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/92 "2018-06-20T00:19:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Countries aren’t people. This has always been a silly metaphor, and still is. > > And if I was the richest man in the world, you can bet your ass I’d let a lot of homeless people sleep on my property. Why do you have to be the richest man in the world? I will assume that you have a spare couch in your living room and leftovers in the fridge. Why don’t you let just one homeless guy stay for a night? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/93 "2018-06-20T00:26:20Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Why do you have to be the richest man in the world? I will assume that you have a spare couch in your living room and leftovers in the fridge. Why don’t you let just one homeless guy stay for a night? I proposed that to a veteran that had trouble with his money and he was going to be evicted from his apartment, turned out that his fellow veterans offered him already a place to sleep. On the matter at hand my family his looking to see if we could become foster parents for some of those abused children that are being held hostage by Trump. No, I’m not rich. Just a Salvadoran that became an American thinking that this was a great nation. I still think that it will be, once we toss the Republican rascals out of office. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/94 "2018-06-20T00:35:22Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Why do you have to be the richest man in the world? I will assume that you have a spare couch in your living room and leftovers in the fridge. Why don’t you let just one homeless guy stay for a night? If I let one homeless person stay in my house for one night, will you admit that it’s super fucked up that a woman is currently suing the US government to find out the location of her child a month after he was taken away from her when she requested asylum? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/95 "2018-06-20T00:39:39Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Why do you have to be the richest man in the world? I will assume that you have a spare couch in your living room and leftovers in the fridge. Why don’t you let just one homeless guy stay for a night? Okay, done. He’s in the spare bedroom. Now we can move past this stupid metaphor. Trump instituted a policy to traumatize children for deterrent purposes, and that’s on him, and he could change it in a minute. He, and his enablers, are to blame for traumatizing these children. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/96 "2018-06-20T00:45:33Z")
How about a mostly-rubber-stamp guest-worker program exempt from minimum-wage laws and some other regulations? Has anyone floated that? These people are coming to the U.S. not to just break U.S. laws for funsies, but because there are already people in the U.S. willing to pay them for their labor, so why waste a ridiculous amount of time and energy fighting it? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/97 "2018-06-20T00:52:12Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I still think that it will be, once we toss the Republican rascals out of office. As a liberal leaning moderate I agree. Republicans have willingly elected a criminal to head their party. A fool, that cares nothing about anyone but himself. It’s gonna be a real, real hard lesson for them to learn and accept. Many, if not most of his die hard supporters won’t. And will crawl back under the rocks from which they came. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/98 "2018-06-20T01:28:17Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Why do you have to be the richest man in the world? I will assume that you have a spare couch in your living room and leftovers in the fridge. Why don’t you let just one homeless guy stay for a night? Consider how low the republican party has taken you. Trump has a lot of terrible policies you defend and now you are defending harming children. Little kids and it does not have to happen this way. Not even a little bit. Trump has taken you and his party to the point that harming little kids is considered the right…indeed the only…thing to do. Let that sink in for a minute. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/99 "2018-06-20T01:34:47Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Do you let poor and/or homeless people sleep in your living room? Invited them into your house for dinner? Do you pick up hitchhikers? The vast majority of these people are decent and just need a break. But you don’t do it because you might be subject to the one that is a criminal. Isn’t the United States allowed to have the same policy? In what world do household rules apply to the country? Just because you have sex with your wife doesn’t mean you get to bag Melania. ---
**Author:** ![Ellecram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellecram/32/18948_2.png) [@Ellecram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellecram)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/100 "2018-06-20T01:54:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Okay, done. He’s in the spare bedroom. > > Now we can move past this stupid metaphor. Trump instituted a policy to traumatize children for deterrent purposes, and that’s on him, and he could change it in a minute. He, and his enablers, are to blame for traumatizing these children. All this from the Republican party that proclaims family values. Mind boggling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339.md?page=6)