# The law DOES require them to separate children from their families **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 18, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339 "2018-06-18T21:15:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/141 "2018-06-20T16:57:58Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You do understand that the term “concentration camp” has a particular meaning outside of its component words, right? You might as well argue that college dorms are concentration camps. You know, a dorm where they are kept without judicial process by threat of force. But I guess this is what we expect from people who say torture is just like frathouse hazing, right? Maybe you conservatives just went to a really weird college? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/142 "2018-06-20T16:58:53Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You might as well argue that college dorms are concentration camps. Which college dorms force children into cages, with nobody except other children allowed to change dirty diapers? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/143 "2018-06-20T17:00:14Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You do understand that the term “concentration camp” has a particular meaning outside of its component words, right? You might as well argue that college dorms are concentration camps. Or, on your side, you could attempt to call these abusive institutions “summer camps.” As in, “Well, our family was fleeing from MS-13 murderers, but we decided to send our kid to America to learn arts and crafts in an abandoned Walmart. I’m not sure if we will ever see him/her again.” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/144 "2018-06-20T17:01:13Z")
Auschwitz was a death camp labelled a “concentration camp” to hide what was going on. However, Dachau… opened up in 1933… started as a concentration camp which morphed into a death camp. > **[Internment](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment)** > > Internment is the imprisonment of people, commonly in large groups, without charges or intent to file charges. The term is especially used for the confinement "of enemy citizens in wartime or of terrorism suspects". Thus, while it can simply mean imprisonment, it tends to refer to preventive confinement rather than confinement after having been convicted of some crime. Use of these terms is subject to debate and political sensitivities. The word internment is also occasionally used to Interne... > **[Dachau concentration camp](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_concentration_camp)** > > Coordinates: .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}48°16′08″N 11°28′07″E / 48.26889°N 11.46861°E / 48.26889; 11.46861 > > > Dachau (/ˈdɑːxaʊ/) was the first concentration camp built by Nazi Germany, opening on 22 March 1933. The camp was initially intended to intern Hitler's po... I’m comfortable with my use of the word. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/145 "2018-06-20T17:33:56Z")
May I interrupt this discussion to ask a couple questions? What percentage of those detained are actually illegal immigrants fleeing poverty and what percentage are refugees fleeing violence and seeking political asylum? I’ve been under the impression that most are seeking asylum but can’t find numbers. If most are, in fact, seeking political asylum, we should be framing the argument that way instead of assuming the parents are generally committing a crime, right? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/146 "2018-06-20T17:46:58Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m not suggesting that this could not be done better. My only objection is to the hysteria of “OMG, they are separating children from their parents!!!” by pointing out that this is very normal when the parents are suspected of committing crimes, especially in the presence of their minor children. “Separating children from their parents” is NOT THE SAME THING as “throwing children into concentration camps”. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/147 "2018-06-20T17:52:17Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So you punish the babies for the crimes of the parents. Despicable. Monstrous. UnAmerican. In what way is this UnAmerican? It’s American law enforcement following the American government’s orders and it’s hardly like this is the first time this sort of thing has happened (Slavery/Native Americans/Japanese internment). The camps will be closed then reopened when the news moves on. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/148 "2018-06-20T17:56:29Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > “Separating children from their parents” is NOT THE SAME THING as “throwing children into concentration camps”. We’re doing both. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/149 "2018-06-20T17:58:27Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Or, on your side, you could attempt to call these abusive institutions “summer camps.” As in, “Well, our family was fleeing from MS-13 murderers, but we decided to send our kid to America to learn arts and crafts in an abandoned Walmart. I’m not sure if we will ever see him/her again.” Shhh, soon that will be written in the history books right next to the heartwarming anecdotes about all the Africans who migrated to America in the 17th and 18th centuries in search of a better life. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/150 "2018-06-20T18:09:44Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Now, I can understand a disagreement with this new policy, but all the President is doing is simply enforcing the law as written and attempting to do his job of protecting the border. This isn’t outrageous or un-American. Oh, please! He knows this is horrific, but he is using that “horror” to apply political pressure to get that stupid wall of his. The trauma those kids are going through is fine with him, as long as it gets him what he wants. He could change it with a stroke of his pen. Lord knows, he does whatever wants with executive orders as it is. The man totally lacks compassion. He has no idea what it is, and that’s one of the hallmarks of narcissism. [**Six Common Traits of Narcissists**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/communication-success/201707/6-common-traits-narcissists-and-gaslighters) Our president to a “T”: > [@](#): > > Both narcissists and gaslighters are prone to frequent lies and exaggerations (about themselves and others), and have the tendency of lifting themselves up by putting others down. While narcissists often strive to make themselves seem superior and “special” by showing off, bragging, taking undeserved credit, and other forms of self-aggrandizement, gaslighters tend to concentrate on making you feel inferior through false accusations, constant criticism, and psychological intimidation. > [@](#): > > Both narcissists and gaslighters enjoy spreading and arousing negative emotions in order to feel powerful, and keep you insecure and off-balance. They habitually invalidate others’ thoughts, feelings, and priorities, showing little remorse for causing people in their lives pain. They often blame their victims for having caused their own victimization (“You wouldn’t get yelled at if you weren’t so stupid!”). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/151 "2018-06-20T18:34:08Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > In what way is this UnAmerican? It’s American law enforcement following the American government’s orders and it’s hardly like this is the first time this sort of thing has happened (Slavery/Native Americans/Japanese internment). > > The camps will be closed then reopened when the news moves on. It is antithetical to American ideals. The fact that our government has departed from those ideals in the past does not invalidate them. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/152 "2018-06-20T18:38:46Z")
If it’s a law that children must be separated from their parents, how can an Executive Order fix it? I thought Executive Orders that circumvent the law were bad? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/153 "2018-06-20T18:43:20Z")
Well supposedly he is signing something by executive order to stop the separation of families. He also stated that he wanted it followed by law (that clears it up) Of course he was rather vague. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/154 "2018-06-20T19:01:21Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > Well supposedly he is signing something by executive order to stop the separation of families. He also stated that he wanted it followed by law (that clears it up) > Of course he was rather vague. But the title of this thread is “The law DOES require them to separate children from their families” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/155 "2018-06-20T19:38:37Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > But the title of this thread is “The law DOES require them to separate children from their families” 🙂 And maybe it does since he is making a change, by executive order … but IANAL ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/156 "2018-06-20T20:20:02Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > If it’s a law that children must be separated from their parents, how can an Executive Order fix it? I thought Executive Orders that circumvent the law were bad? There are a lot of laws. Potentially, they found a contradicting law. Personal guess: He has written something to the effect that the law was intended for residents of the US as is made clear by the lack of consideration for the high probability that there will be no relatives to give the child to and, in his determination, need not be applied to non-citizens. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/157 "2018-06-20T20:30:31Z")
Am I missing something? IIUC the following facts are facts: (1) Obama deported more illegal immigrants than any prior U.S. President in history. He was hardly soft on illegal immigration. (2) The relevant laws governing treatment of refugees are the same now as they were under Obama. Am I wrong? If not, the new atrocities are due to one man’s personal decisions; that man’s name rhymes with Turd-Dump. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/158 "2018-06-20T20:46:43Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Am I wrong? If not, the new atrocities are due to one man’s personal decisions Two. Don’t forget Sessions. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/159 "2018-06-20T20:54:50Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Two. Don’t forget Sessions. Many, don’t forget congress and all the ICE people gleefully throwing children in cages. Probably some others too…judges, Hillary Clinton maybe , your cousin Jim. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/160 "2018-06-20T21:31:43Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > Many, don’t forget congress and all the ICE people gleefully throwing children in cages. Which they wouldn’t be doing without the top two giving them permission. This is all on Agent Orange and that old guy from Selma. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339.md?page=9)