# The Law & Order Appreciation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 10, 2016, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522 "2016-09-10T13:56:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/21 "2016-09-11T18:39:42Z")
Great thread! I agree with much that’s been said, including my strong preference for the original L&O and Lenny’s prominence in my enjoyment. Related question, no intention to hijack – why did the producers decide to have “Law” focus on the police work, and “Order” on the court system? Seems counter intuitively backwards to me. Cops deal with and mete out order, while lawyers - well, you see my point. And my quandary. ETA spelling! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/22 "2016-09-11T22:36:02Z")
There was also an episode where a girl kills her roommate because she’s fucking nuts, and at the end, Adam Schiff makes a comment about how you never really know who you’re sleeping with. Jack and Claire kind of glance at each other. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Jack knows how to pick 'em. One of them falsified evidence and cause quite a mess. Claire also slept with her mentor judge (IIRC) and THAT caused problems. I think she has Daddy issues. > > At least I don’t think he slept with anyone after Claire. Jamie was too busy with her family life, “Hang 'em High” Abby would have just rolled her eyes if Jack asked, and break him in half if he tried anything, Serena wouldn’t, obviously, and I think he left Borgia alone, and Connie was supposed to be “for” Cutter, aka Jack Jr. I believe it was also the fact that he so upset by what happened to Claire, that he never wanted to have another affair with an assistant. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/23 "2016-09-12T00:20:20Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > It would be interesting to compile a list of those interesting character moments across the franchise. I’m glad that the show didn’t focus on the private lives hardly at all, but it’s fun to find those things like Easter eggs. I just saw an episode last night where Lennie meets Rey’s wife and daughters for the first time. Best one, IMO, on CI: “Dramma Giocoso,” when ME Rodgers mentions that she went to the opera with Lennie Briscoe. Wait!-- hold it! Rodgers and Briscoe dated! or maybe they just went as friends? well, either way, coooool! > [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](#): > > Brisco and Curtis - I could see Brisco actually visiting the Curtis household for a holiday or Sunday dinner. When Curtis is talking to Van Buren after his wife’s funeral, he talks about having spoken to Briscoe on the phone just before he died, so either they stayed in touch, or Briscoe reached out when he knew he was dying to say his good-byes, and Curtis was on his list, even though by then he had moved to California. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Exile was good except for making Profacci crooked. I loved that part. > [@CannyDan](#): > > Great thread! I agree with much that’s been said, including my strong preference for the original L&O and Lenny’s prominence in my enjoyment. > > Related question, no intention to hijack – why did the producers decide to have “Law” focus on the police work, and “Order” on the court system? Seems counter intuitively backwards to me. Cops deal with and mete out order, while lawyers - well, you see my point. And my quandary. Because “Order and Law” isn’t a phrase. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/24 "2016-09-12T01:06:14Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > \ Because “Order and Law” isn’t a phrase. If you’re joking, ha ha. If not, there’s no reason the intro couldn’t have first shown the legal eagles \ (“Representing society’s rules for fairness in treatment for all citizens…”) then the cops \ (“…and those who investigate possible transgressions.”) or some other reversed paraphrase of the actual intro. I just find a disconnect in lawyers representing Order, and cops representing The Law. Not a biggie, it doesn’t keep me from enjoying the show. I just wondered if I’m the only one who’s made this observation. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/25 "2016-09-12T01:12:41Z")
Abbie was my favorite Assitant D.A. I loved her soliloquy when she threatened to extradite the serial killer (with Mommy issues) to Texas so they could “Fry his Ass” and she wanted to be that pulled the plunger. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OauMoyCDaSc/hqdefault.jpg "Abbie Carmichael's finest moment... (Angie Harmon scene)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OauMoyCDaSc) ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/26 "2016-09-12T02:24:14Z")
Funny. I normally liked Abby’s Take No Shit attitude, but I found that particular speech somewhat cringeworthy. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/27 "2016-09-12T13:46:36Z")
My favorite characters are, in order : Jack McCoy, Lenny Briscoe, and Jack McCoy’s eyebrows. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/28 "2016-09-12T15:09:58Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > One of the things I like about L&O is that they kept the main characters personal drama to a minimum, unlike its spawn SVU. I think one of their strengths is that they found a great balance on personal drama - there was enough of the character’s other lives that you got a sense of them as real people and not just plot points, but not enough that you get bogged down into soap opera land. I don’t think the series would be nearly as compelling without the glimpses into the ‘offscreen’ lives the characters lead. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/29 "2016-09-12T16:30:30Z")
I am an old-school L&O fan — started watching back when it was Briscoe/Logan and Stone/Kincaid, but quickly caught up with what came before in reruns. (Greavey was kind of a pill, but Robinette was a great character.) I got hooked because it was such a great police procedural. If you think back to the first five or so seasons, in most cases, the person the detectives arrested usually ended up being guilty of the crime. The drama then stemmed from various legal/ethical/moral issues raised by the case. Roughly around the departure of Stone and Logan, we started getting the “And you won’t believe the shocking twist!” plots, and the show became a whodunnit, designed to keep the audience guessing as long as possible. I stayed with the show for a long time — it was the deadly combo of Elizabeth Röhm and Dianne Weist that made me throw in the towel — but I always pined for the earlier, grittier L&O. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/30 "2016-09-12T18:26:48Z")
I bought the complete series on DVD and enjoyed watching every episode. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/31 "2016-09-12T18:46:45Z")
I was a big fan of the original L&O and yet I rarely find myself watching the reruns, which as we’ve said are on in perpetuity. I can’t even recall specifics off the top of my head yet when I do occasionally stop to watch it all comes right back to me. Back in the days when it first aired everyone was a fan so it was fun water cooler talk. Another fan and I would crack each other up imitating Jack McCoy. “\*HOW \*many TSP reports have to be sent out? _TWO_??? _THREE_??” Now I work with younger people who probably haven’t seen it any of the franchise much less the old ones. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/32 "2016-09-12T20:25:31Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > I am an old-school L&O fan — started watching back when it was Briscoe/Logan and Stone/Kincaid, but quickly caught up with what came before in reruns. (Greavey was kind of a pill, but Robinette was a great character.) I got hooked because it was such a great police procedural. If you think back to the first five or so seasons, in most cases, the person the detectives arrested usually ended up being guilty of the crime. The drama then stemmed from various legal/ethical/moral issues raised by the case. Roughly around the departure of Stone and Logan, we started getting the “And you won’t believe the shocking twist!” plots, and the show became a whodunnit, designed to keep the audience guessing as long as possible. We still say “Ripped from the headlines!” to describe some noteworthy, L&O-worthy, real life crime. Note that in the first several seasons the crimes weren’t even necessarily murder. I liked that the guilty didn’t always get convicted. Life is messy that way. > [@Nonsuch](#): > > I stayed with the show for a long time — it was … Elizabeth Röhm … that made me throw in the towel Was it because she was a lesbian? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/33 "2016-09-12T20:30:40Z")
No, it’s because a stick of firewood has more acting range than she does. I’d say Kincaid, Ross, and Carmichael were my top three assistants. They all had their moments. Funny how no one has mentioned Green’s female partner who lasted all of six months. (No, I can’t remember her name. That’s how little an impact she had.) Even Van Buren despised her. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/34 "2016-09-12T21:14:39Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Funny how no one has mentioned Green’s female partner who lasted all of six months. (No, I can’t remember her name. That’s how little an impact she had.) Even Van Buren despised her. Detective Beauty Queen. Cassady, I think. Can’t remember her first name, but give this show’s history, I’ll bet it is Alex.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_John_Marcej)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/35 "2016-09-12T21:19:09Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Funny how no one has mentioned Green’s female partner who lasted all of six months. (No, I can’t remember her name. That’s how little an impact she had.) Even Van Buren despised her. That was Nina Cassady (Milena Govich). She was Green’s partner for the entire season in Season 17. I didn’t have a problem with her, she was the only female detective in the entire run of the show. (which is interesting in a way since there was only one male Assistant DA in the entire run) But Because Assistant DA Alexandra Borgia (Annie Parisse) (an Assistant DA that NO ONE ever talks about, which is a shame, I thought she was pretty good.) was murdered at the end of season 16 and since Joe Fontana (Dennis Farina) left at the end of that season too there were two roles to fill in Season 17. So in stepped Cassady as the new detective and as the new Assistant DA was Connie Rubirosa (Alana De La Garza) I think what hurt Cassady especially was this was a transition season. As a viewer I got the feeling that NBC was getting tired of the show. Law & Order was booted from it’s long time time slot (Wednesday at 10:00) to Friday at 10:00 and I felt the writing was on the wall that NBC wanted it gone. Probably a lot had to do with the power Dick Wolf had at that time. for a short while he had 4 hours of their schedule with L&O shows alone. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/36 "2016-09-12T22:22:21Z")
Anyone a fan of L&O: LA or L&O: UK? Or the others? Generally, I like LA, but they had only one season, and the percentage of stinkers was accordingly higher. In that time, they switched the DDA played by Alfred Molina back to being a cop, killed one of the detectives, and brought in Connie Rubirosa. That’s a lot of character shuffling in 22 episodes. L&O UK is a an interesting spin on the show. On the one hand, it’s nice to see how the UK does both Law and Order. The ubiquitousness of surveillance cameras makes getting evidence easier than NYC. But many of the episodes are retellings of classic mothership episodes. L&O: PBJ, I mean, TBJ was an example of failed premise. It was supposed to be a window into a different world, but the stories were weak. And despite making a big deal of having lennie there, when he (and Jerry) died they just ignored it. The “non-L&O” L&O, (no prefix) Conviction, struck me as unwatchable from the get-go. I’ve never seen an episode. I called it “Young Lawyers in Love”. Seemed more like a soap opera than an L&O franchise show. ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/37 "2016-09-13T02:18:30Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > As for best ADA I have to go with Michael Moriarty Seconded. McCoy has become so iconic within the context of the show that people forget how incredible Moriarty/Stone was. I also second the love for Green, Lupo and Bernard. Like Logan fine - but like the other young guys better. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/38 "2016-09-13T03:49:12Z")
[QUOTE=Just Asking Questions;19623789 Was it because she was a lesbian? :)[/QUOTE] In hindsight, were there any hints about that, or did it really come out of nowhere? I’m another who liked the small glimpses into the characters’ personal lives, but I’m glad they didn’t overwhelm the show. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/39 "2016-09-13T04:07:54Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > In hindsight, were there any hints about that, or did it really come out of nowhere? Southerlyn made at least one reference to going to her high school prom with a guy. She may have realized her orientation after high school, of course, but it’s the only reference I remember before her final scene with Branch. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522/40 "2016-09-13T04:17:47Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > In hindsight, were there any hints about that, or did it really come out of nowhere? > > I’m another who liked the small glimpses into the characters’ personal lives, but I’m glad they didn’t overwhelm the show. I see none, even watching them now. As noted, she mentioned going to the prom, but that could have been before she came out. In several episodes she defended gay rights, but if I was in her place in those episodes I would have taken the same position. There was another episode in which the type of purse a woman has was a clue, and she gave insights that seemed to come from a straight perspective (I am not implying that lesbians don’t know from clutch purses - it was the tone of her answer, not the words. Either way, it was subtle.) I always take that “revelation” as Wolf and company making fun of Rohm. They told here she could go out with a big dramatic revelation, and she was too dumb to notice the whole scene was stupid. Instead of being a big supporting scene for gay rights, Serena comes across as a clueless twit. Even if Branch DID fire her for being gay, did she actually think a lawyer is going to admit to it?? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-order-appreciation-thread/765522.md?page=3)