# The least subtle film ever made **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 22, 2013, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612 "2013-03-22T04:11:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/41 "2013-03-22T18:12:06Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > How about [Sergeant York](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034167/)? I love the movie, but it’s pure propaganda. It won Oscars for Best Actor and Best Editing, and was nominated for 9 more. _The Ten Commandments_ was well-received by the Academy, and literally could not get less subtle in sheer damn straightforward plainspokenness. “A city is made of brick, Pharaoh. The strong make many. The weak make few. The dead make none.” “The city that he builds shall bear my name, the woman that he loves shall bear my child. So let it be written, so it shall be done.” “God of our fathers, who has appointed an end to the bondage of Israel, blessed am I among all mothers in the land, for my eyes have beheld Thy deliverer.” “Thus saith the Lord, God of Israel – Let my people go!” “Moses has words. Pharaoh has spears!” “The Lord of Hosts will do battle for us; behold His mighty hand!” “HIS GOD . . . IS GOD.” “It is better to die in battle with a God, than to live in shame!” “Those who shall not live by the law, shall die by the law!” ---
**Author:** ![bleach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bleach/32/3106_2.png) [@bleach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bleach)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/42 "2013-03-22T18:26:48Z")
I’d say that Oliver Stone is rapidly converging on a “least subtle” distinction. I agree with \*\*Nixon \*\*but let’s also not forget **W** , which was his and Stanley Weiser’s personal depiction of George W. Bush. I haven’t seen many documentaries mentioned here, but I’m sure that we can all think of politically-motivated and activist ones that aren’t particularly subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/43 "2013-03-22T18:27:39Z")
**Dances With Wolves: We Have Much To Learn From Them** ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/44 "2013-03-22T18:29:09Z")
_Bowling for Columbine_. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/45 "2013-03-22T18:30:54Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Either you’re being subtle enough to whoosh me, or I need to genuinely spit-take at the alleged subtlety of the Catalyst Character in a black-and-white movie being the one shown in glorious color. (Heck, it’s the single obvious image chosen from among all others to instantly get the point across on [TV Tropes](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SplashOfColor), explaining that this of course usually indicates something important.) > > It’s like unto a movie with no music – except whenever the villain enters, helpfully accompanied by a DUN-DUN-DUN! > > What struck you as subtle? The important stamp being made to look EXTRA important? The long-suffering Jews finally getting to celebrate the Sabbath, with SPECIAL EMPHASIS just in case we’d miss the point? The black-and-white story of THEN giving way to a full-color ending set NOW? Dorothy’s entrance to Oz? B&W was used to soften the brutality and relentless violence..to protect the audience from the full reality of the experience. SS also didnt make the Nazis out to be cartoon characters. He portrayed them as amoral banal men like they mostly really were. Not all the Jews were heroic. IRL there was nothing subtle about the Holocaust; it was industrial style mass murder that killed millions. SS did an excellent job if bringing as much humanity as possible into the Holocaust. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/46 "2013-03-22T18:37:57Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > **Dances With Wolves: We Have Much To Learn From Them** Isn’t there a scene in there where an ugly american literally wipes his ass with a depiction of Native Americans? Nothing subtle about that. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/47 "2013-03-22T18:39:31Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > SS did an excellent job if bringing as much humanity as possible into the Holocaust. You need to be very, very, very, very careful with your acronyms in this topic. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/48 "2013-03-22T18:43:45Z")
Is there a single, solitary, subtle comic moment in [The Producers](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063462/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2)? It’s been a while, and maybe there is, but I don’t remember it. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/49 "2013-03-22T18:44:10Z")
I love _The Departed_, but that final shot of the rat climbing on the telephone wire was a bad bad choice by Scorsese. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/50 "2013-03-22T18:47:01Z")
Pretty much any Nicolas Cage film, but I’m going to suggest Drive Angry, in which he gets very, very angry. And drives. A lot. I’ll be seeing Stolen tomorrow, and I expect a similar amount of depth and subtlety there. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/51 "2013-03-22T18:55:52Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > Isn’t there a scene in there where an ugly american literally wipes his ass with a depiction of Native Americans? Nothing subtle about that. Yep - it’s actually his journal he had been writing in. I just saw it on MGMHD the other night, and boy, does he lay it on. Incredible that it got Best Picture AND Best Director, beating…you know what? You don’t want to know. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/52 "2013-03-22T19:05:13Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Really, if you look at any of the films from Spielberg’s WWII trilogy - Saving Private Ryan, Schindler’s List and Raiders of the Lost Ark - he doesn’t really do “subtle” when it comes to the Nazis. You forgot Spielberg’s 1941 as part of his WWII series. 😉 Stevie wants it that way, too. I want my admission money back. [1941 (1979) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078723/?ref_=sr_1) Bad as it is, it’s not his least subtle movie. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/53 "2013-03-22T19:08:53Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > You need to be very, very, very, very careful with your acronyms in this topic. Ahh yes. Sorry. One last thing. The youngest of the Schindler Jews died recently; he had been a teacher in SoCal. He criticized Spielberg for portraying OS as being too morally ambiguous and for not showing much of his kindness and the risks he took in protecting his Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/54 "2013-03-22T19:08:56Z")
> [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > You forgot Spielberg’s 1941 as part of his WWII series. 😉 Stevie wants it that way, too. I want my admission money back. [1941 (1979) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078723/?ref_=sr_1) > > Bad as it is, it’s not his least subtle movie. Bad movie, but I loved the theme music. One of John Williams’ least-known works. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/55 "2013-03-22T19:13:19Z")
> [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > You forgot Spielberg’s 1941 as part of his WWII series. 😉 Stevie wants it that way, too. I want my admission money back. [1941 (1979) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078723/?ref_=sr_1) > > Bad as it is, it’s not his least subtle movie. Spielberg had it in for the Japanese over the raids on Shanghai as well. It’s not only the basis of his film _Empire of the Sun_ (set in the 1940s), but in the second Indiana Jones film (_Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom_) it’s stated that Indy found Short Round in Shanghai after Japanese attacks in 1932. And I suspect the dealing over the remains of the First Emperor of the Manchu Dynasty that drives that opening section might be tied up in some way with legitimizing the Japanese control of Munchukuo, which they had been trying to control for decades and actually invaded in 1931, seven years before the film. ---
**Author:** ![biqu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@biqu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/biqu)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/56 "2013-03-22T19:40:33Z")
_Religulous_ has my vote. (Unsubtle witnessing for atheism by Bill Maher, if you haven’t seen it.) ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/57 "2013-03-22T20:00:30Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Bad movie, but I loved the theme music. One of John Williams’ least-known works. I love that march. Did you know that Spielberg actually dusted off his clarinet and played on that soundtrack recording. He felt the march was a little too perfect. So played in the clarinet section. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/58 "2013-03-22T20:03:10Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Spielberg had it in for the Japanese over the raids on Shanghai as well. It’s not only the basis of his film _Empire of the Sun_ (set in the 1940s), but in the second Indiana Jones film (_Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom_) it’s stated that Indy found Short Round in Shanghai after Japanese attacks in 1932. And I suspect the dealing over the remains of the First Emperor of the Manchu Dynasty that drives that opening section might be tied up in some way with legitimizing the Japanese control of Munchukuo, which they had been trying to control for decades and actually invaded in 1931, seven years before the film. Empire of the Sun is based on the novel of the same name by J.G. Ballard. It’s a biographical novel. J.G. Ballard was a British kid living there and was captured by the Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/59 "2013-03-22T20:04:15Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Empire of the Sun is based on the novel of the same name by J.G. Ballard. It’s a biographical novel. J.G. Ballard was a British kid living there and was captured by the Japanese. Absolutely. But Spielberg chose to make the film. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/60 "2013-03-22T20:33:08Z")
[Highway of Agony.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rzr7CHX_0b0) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612.md?page=4)