# The least subtle film ever made **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 22, 2013, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612 "2013-03-22T04:11:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/81 "2013-03-24T20:59:35Z")
Just thought of another potential Arnoldism – he says, “Don’t worry, I got your back”, just before he rips out the guy’s spine. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MacSpon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@MacSpon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacSpon)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/82 "2013-03-24T21:02:04Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Just thought of another potential Arnoldism – he says, “Don’t worry, I got your back”, just before he rips out the guy’s spine. 😛 You win. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/83 "2013-03-24T21:49:35Z")
> [@MacSpon](#): > > You win. 😃 “Did joo evah wahnt to be a fahmah?” (Kicks guy in the nuts.) “Heah’s a couple of acres!” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/84 "2013-03-24T22:19:09Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > Have you seen the movie? > Because the Japanese are really not so bad. The boy idolizes the Japanese pilots and never stops. He makes friends and becomes disenchanted with the Americans. I’ve seen it. It’s definitely a stretch to say “The Japanese are really not so bad”. They bombed Shanghai, killed a lot of people, kept him imprisoned for a long time, and a fair part of his diet was bugs. I’m sure he could see some good things through his imprisonment, but seeing the Japanese as “not so bad” probably wasn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/85 "2013-03-25T01:37:13Z")
Born on the Fourth of July. I felt like I was being dragged by the hand with Stone shouting “Look. Look!” I pretty much swore off his films after that. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/86 "2013-03-25T03:46:01Z")
Speaking of Oliver Stone, Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps. While the original film was a more subtle tale of greed and corruption and Bud Fox being pulled between two father figures, this film was just a 2 hour dissertation on “moral hazard”. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/87 "2013-03-25T11:38:39Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I’ve seen it. It’s definitely a stretch to say “The Japanese are really not so bad”. They bombed Shanghai, killed a lot of people, kept him imprisoned for a long time, and a fair part of his diet was bugs. I’m sure he could see some good things through his imprisonment, but seeing the Japanese as “not so bad” probably wasn’t one of them. What about the Japanese teenager who cried when his plane wouldn’t start, played with toy planes when he was younger and shared his food with the main character? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/88 "2013-03-25T12:01:56Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > What about the Japanese teenager who cried when his plane wouldn’t start, played with toy planes when he was younger and shared his food with the main character? Hmm… does a single sympathetic character equate with his war-making social group being “not so bad”. Gotta think about that one. Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/89 "2013-03-25T12:22:24Z")
Do you think the Japanese Ballard encountered in real life were any more sympathetic? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/90 "2013-03-25T12:49:08Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Do you think the Japanese Ballard encountered in real life were any more sympathetic? People, people, this isn’;t a questioon about sympathic characters, or even about this movie in particular. If you’ll go back t what started it, I was making a point about Spielberg not only bringing up German actions in WWII, but Japanese attacks on Shanghai as well, somethi ng not often covered in US history classes. That was my point, and I stand by it. Whether you think the movie humanized and sympathized with some people is prettyy much beside the point – The Japanese bombed and invaded Shanghai (on two different occasions), and those were subjects of two different Spielberg movies. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/91 "2013-03-25T13:00:20Z")
Blues Brothers. Everything is right out there, making the film so much fun. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/92 "2013-03-25T14:30:48Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Blues Brothers. Everything is right out there, making the film so much fun. Are you sure? I thought the Illinois Nazis were a commentary on foreign relations and Reagan’s America. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/93 "2013-03-25T14:44:51Z")
No, that’s reading too much into it. The IL Nazis were a commentary on the [Skokie march](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Party_of_America_v._Village_of_Skokie). ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/94 "2013-03-25T15:49:39Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Hmm… does a single sympathetic character equate with his war-making social group being “not so bad”. Gotta think about that one. > > Nope. But this was a movie set in a Japanese interment camp in WW2. Having even one significant character who is unambiguously likeable is noteworthy in those circumstances is pretty damn good. Even the Japanese guards weren’t portrayed as inhumane, or at least no worse than you’d expect from an interment guard, and the other kamikaze pilots were rather noble, since they were seen from the Japan-worshipping British boy’s POV. They all came across like people, just on different sides. Did you expect the film to portray invaders (they invaded China at the beginning) and guards as heros or something? Japanese internment camps were notoriously Hellish - if anything, Spielberg soft-focussed it all. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/95 "2013-03-25T16:24:16Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > But this was a movie set in a Japanese interment camp in WW2. Having even one significant character who is unambiguously likeable is noteworthy in those circumstances is pretty damn good. > Even the Japanese guards weren’t portrayed as inhumane, or at least no worse than you’d expect from an interment guard, and the other kamikaze pilots were rather noble, since they were seen from the Japan-worshipping British boy’s POV. They all came across like people, just on different sides. > > Did you expect the film to portray invaders (they invaded China at the beginning) and guards as heros or something? Japanese internment camps were notoriously Hellish - if anything, Spielberg soft-focussed it all. I don’t get your point at all. Spielberg brought to light the actions of the Japanese in attacking Shanghaoi. Twice, in two movies. That he depicted guards as human in all to his credit, since it’s not black-and-white simplistic morality. But it’s beside my point, as is how I felt about it. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/96 "2013-03-25T17:03:20Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I don’t get your point at all. > Spielberg brought to light the actions of the Japanese in attacking Shanghaoi. Twice, in two movies. That he depicted guards as human in all to his credit, since it’s not black-and-white simplistic morality. But it’s beside my point, as is how I felt about it. Ok, that’s how you felt about it. But Empire of the Sun does depict people on both sides as having faults, despite a setting which could justify caricatures, so I don’t think it’s a good example. You wouldn’t get Japan = evil from watching that film. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/97 "2013-03-25T17:12:59Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Ok, that’s how you felt about it. But Empire of the Sun does depict people on both sides as having faults, despite a setting which could justify caricatures, so I don’t think it’s a good example. You wouldn’t get Japan = evil from watching that film. Since I didn’t tell you how I felt, it’s remarkable that you think you know. At no point duid I say Japan = Evil in that film, although it’s pretty clear that the actions of the Japanese government (like that of the Nazis) mpretty clearly was. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/98 "2013-03-25T17:36:52Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Are you sure? I thought the Illinois Nazis were a commentary on foreign relations and Reagan’s America. Seeing as how the film was made in Carters ‘America’…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/99 "2013-03-25T17:47:22Z")
> [@minlokwat](#): > > Gotta +1 (+2 ?) with the \*Crash \*crowd. > > Originally the filmmakers wanted to include the subtitle: “Crash: Where Racists Demonstrate that Racism is Bad, Bad, Bad for People of Different Races. Here, Let Us Demonstrate in Every Single Scene.” Hmm… I’m starting to think the movie is more subtle than I thought, seeing as how there’s at least a little confusion about the message of the film. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612/100 "2013-03-25T18:11:32Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Seeing as how the film was made in Carters ‘America’…:rolleyes: Ah - that’s where the country/western band came in. It pretty obviously foreshadowed the descent of the Georgian (country) with the rise of the Californian (Western). The glue on the accelerator indicated that Reagan’s election was inevitable. Landis is a genius, I tell you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-least-subtle-film-ever-made/653612.md?page=6)