# The left hates free speech **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720 "2013-11-12T13:39:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/1 "2013-11-12T13:39:54Z")
First off, let’s define free speech. Free speech means we defend the right of people to speak things which we find offensive or hateful, etc. Free speech does not mean defending the right to speak things we like and appreciate. That being said, Notice how the left is blocking free speech on the campus of Brown univ. [Brown University censorship: Ray Kelly speech provokes dissidence.](http://www.slate.com/articles/life/inside_higher_ed/2013/11/brown_university_censorship_ray_kelly_speech_provokes_dissidence.html) and actually, speech codes are springing up all over the place on university campuses which are supposed to be bastions of free speech. The reason is simple…the left is in control of all the universities and the left does not protect those who are saying things they don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/2 "2013-11-12T13:45:50Z")
Who are these ‘the Left’ you speak of? And who left them where? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/3 "2013-11-12T13:58:10Z")
[Texas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson) outlawed burning the American flag. Therefore, the Right hates free speech, when it’s a form of protest that they don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/4 "2013-11-12T13:58:29Z")
They are the left b/c they left liberalism behind and are fast becoming marxist. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/5 "2013-11-12T13:59:52Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > [Texas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson) outlawed burning the American flag. Therefore, the Right hates free speech, when it’s a form of protest that they don’t like. there are plenty of people on the right who hate free speech as well. no question. but for the left, it is a central part of their platform. they move to shut down speech wherever they go. speech codes, shouting down speakers, throwing stuff at speakers, blocking entrances, etc. etc. There is none of this on the right. ---
**Author:** ![WilyQuixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WilyQuixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilyQuixote)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/6 "2013-11-12T14:02:17Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > First off, let’s define free speech. Free speech means we defend the right of people to speak things which we find offensive or hateful, etc. I’m just a new guy from across the pond. I think it would be helpful if you provided a sourced definition of “free speech”., not your idiosyncratic definition. This is GD after all. > [@](#): > > Notice how the left is blocking free speech on the campus of Brown univ. I didn’t notice actually. What I did notice was that one guy was heckled at a lecture by a group of students. No evidence was adduced in the article or by you that such behaviour was representative of the student body. Cite needed. > [@](#): > > The reason is simple…the left is in control of all the universities Again, cite. And don’t try and weasel out by providing links that show a predominant left influence at (american)universities - you specifically said the left controlled **all** universities. > [@](#): > > and the left does not protect those who are saying things they don’t like. Again, not supported by your article. Cite needed. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/7 "2013-11-12T14:02:20Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > there are plenty of people on the right who hate free speech as well. no question. but for the left, it is a central part of their platform. they move to shut down speech wherever they go. speech codes, shouting down speakers, throwing stuff at speakers, blocking entrances, etc. etc. There is none of this on the right. Is it, now? From the article in your OP: > [@](#): > > One might conclude that Brown has a problem with free speech. But it’s also worth noting that, both in 2001 and 2013, many students said that the protesters didn’t in fact represent the majority view on campus. In 2001, many said that the anti-reparations ad was offensive, but no excuse to block distribution of a newspaper. This year, many students say that they find Ray Kelly’s policing philosophy offensive, but that he was entitled to speak. (The Brown Daily Herald published a poll Wednesday suggesting that the vast majority of students feel that way, and that only 13 percent of students endorsed the idea of shutting down the lecture.) That sure doesn’t sound like a central part of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/8 "2013-11-12T14:05:03Z")
Wait, Brown University was elected to be representative of the entire left? How did I miss that! ---
**Author:** ![WilyQuixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@WilyQuixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilyQuixote)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/9 "2013-11-12T14:05:49Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > They are the left b/c they left liberalism behind and are fast becoming marxist. Do define Marxist. This should be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/10 "2013-11-12T14:17:21Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > there are plenty of people on the right who hate free speech as well. no question. but for the left, it is a central part of their platform. they move to shut down speech wherever they go. speech codes, shouting down speakers, throwing stuff at speakers, blocking entrances, etc. etc. There is none of this on the right. On the off-chance that you really are interested in the topic, try to remember that “the left” isn’t a homogeneous group. There are many intelligent, thinking lefties; there are also some stupid ones. Some people who speak for the left appear to have learnt their political opinions, rather than arriving at them through thought. This is how you get people declaring something as racist (for example) and shouting it down mindlessly. Of course, you do get the same thing on the right. This happens because, contrary to what most people would like to believe, there are stupid people on both the left and the right. I would also add that, as an outsider, most political discourse in the US appears to just be each side shouting past the other anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/11 "2013-11-12T14:21:52Z")
Kind of a silly definition of free speech. Free speech is when Congress doesn’t pass any laws banning speech or its equivalent. There’s nothing that says private individuals have to allow other people to say anything they want. Brown University can set whatever speech policy it wants for Brown University. Fox News can set whatever speech policy it wants for Fox News. The Straight Dope Message Board can set whatever speech standard it wants for the Straight Dope Message Board. These are all examples of freedom - something which both liberals and conservatives support. Seriously, cornopean, start putting some thought into these issues before you post. Are you actually a liberal who’s trying to make conservatives look bad? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/12 "2013-11-12T14:26:36Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > there are plenty of people on the right who hate free speech as well. no question. but for the left, it is a central part of their platform. they move to shut down speech wherever they go. speech codes, shouting down speakers, throwing stuff at speakers, blocking entrances, etc. etc. There is none of this on the right. This is really, really, really, really dumb. “A central part of their platform”? What platform? Unless by the “left” you mean the Worker’s Vanguard Party or the Revolutionary Maoist Brigade, or some other extreme leftist group, you’re completely off-base and incorrect. Here’s how your argument would need to look to show that it’s strong: 1. Show the bad behavior of a leftist. 2. Show that the leftist involved holds a prominent position in leftist politics–maybe they get invited as major speakers at leftist conferences, or maybe they’re in a prime-time spot on MSNBC. 3. Challenge others to disprove you by showing that other prominent leftists have repudiated the action of the poor-behaving leftist. You might, for example, 1. Show that Cornel West has gone behind the scenes to block conservative speakers at Union Theological Seminary. 2. Show that Cornel West is respected among other leftists and is often invited to speak at events like the Democratic National Convention. 3. Challenge others to disprove you by showing that other prominent leftists have repudiated his blocking of speakers. THAT would be a strong argument. Your argument? It sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/13 "2013-11-12T14:32:13Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > I would also add that, as an outsider, most political discourse in the US appears to just be each side shouting past the other anyway. Isn’t that true of any outsider, anywhere? I might look at a brawl erupting in the Taiwan Assembly and think “those guys are idiots” but when the equivalent happens in the Canadian Parliament (voices raised _rather loudly_), I’m more invested. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/14 "2013-11-12T14:38:05Z")
Yes, the Left hates free speech. Which you discovered by reading an article in that indefatigable champion of conservative ideology, [Slate.com](http://Slate.com). ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/15 "2013-11-12T15:13:08Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > Notice how the left is blocking free speech on the campus of Brown univ. [Brown University censorship: Ray Kelly speech provokes dissidence.](http://www.slate.com/articles/life/inside_higher_ed/2013/11/brown_university_censorship_ray_kelly_speech_provokes_dissidence.html) > and actually, speech codes are springing up all over the place on university campuses which are supposed to be bastions of free speech. The reason is simple…the left is in control of all the universities and the left does not protect those who are saying things they don’t like. There’s plenty of reason to be concerned about how leftist groups shut down speakers, writers, and others on college campuses and elsewhere. When I was a student at Harvey Mudd College, several students and professors were reprimanded for speaking things that were deemed offensive. But your OP is too sloppy to start a serious debate on the topic. If you want to change minds at the SDMB, you’ll have to try harder. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/16 "2013-11-12T15:34:40Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > there are plenty of people on the right who hate free speech as well. no question. but for the left, it is a central part of their platform. they move to shut down speech wherever they go. speech codes, shouting down speakers, throwing stuff at speakers, blocking entrances, etc. etc. There is none of this on the right. Wow you must really live inside a bubble. It was the right that invented this. In fact they went so far as to [write it all up in a memo](http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2009/07/31/53761/recess-harassment-memo/). While I don’t agree with these tactics these students are just following the rights script. I assumed that the OP was along the lines of “you guys to it too.” I never suspected you actually thought that there was more of this on the left than the right. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/17 "2013-11-12T15:38:55Z")
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.” Free speech simply means the government can’t shut you up. It doesn’t mean a private entity must provide a venue for your speech, or that your audience must sit politely and listen to it. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/18 "2013-11-12T15:47:55Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Wow you must really live inside a bubble. It was the right that invented this. In fact they went so far as to [write it all up in a memo](http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2009/07/31/53761/recess-harassment-memo/). While I don’t agree with these tactics these students are just following the rights script. > > I assumed that the OP was along the lines of “you guys to it too.” I never suspected you actually thought that there was more of this on the left than the right. That memo is from 2009, and shouting down speakers one disagrees with so as to foil their presentation predates that by a fair bit, wouldn’t you say? Further, it’s not some sophisticated approach that had to be carefully mapped out, it’s the approach any small-but-angry group is going to have to use to have an impact. No script-following is required. ---
**Author:** ![Yodalicious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yodalicious/32/8195_2.png) [@Yodalicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yodalicious)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/19 "2013-11-12T15:59:07Z")
Yes, two incidents, 12 years apart, at a university where the majority of students disagreed with the actions of a few proves the left, the ENTIRE left, hates free speech. You win. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720/20 "2013-11-12T15:59:39Z")
OP: please explain the logic by which you go from “a minority of students on Brown campus” to “all leftists”. Then please explain what that has to do with policies ensuring that the means of production belong to the proletariat. One lovely little irony I find here is that Brown University is a private institution, as is its newspaper and its lecture halls - they can choose who they want to speak or which advertisers to have entirely freely, and there’s nothing wrong with a private institution saying, “We will not support this speech”. I would not use my own resources to provide a platform to someone like Orson Scott Card or Tony Perkins. I would protest if my college did. I honestly don’t see what you’re objecting to. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-left-hates-free-speech/673720.md?page=2)