# The Leftovers - I don't understand the praise \[Open Spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, hbomax-wb-dc\ **Created:** [November 14, 2019, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398 "2019-11-14T03:53:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/101 "2021-05-18T16:45:29Z")
The physicists who wanted to make money off the machine didn’t go through. They stayed behind and made money off the machine. Didn’t matter to them whether it worked or not. One even said she didn’t think it worked, didn’t like the odds. The people who went through were like Nora. Rational minded people driven crazy by grief and a huge unexplained supernatural event. I assume they were like Nora, in that they’re fine with the machine being a suicide machine, with it all ending without any reunion with loved ones, so long as they are out of their misery. This is not really in the realm of scientific exploration. It’s not air flight, or space flight. Star Trek transporter technology would be used on millions of inanimate objects before a living thing ever went through it. That can’t be done here, and apparently would be impossible anyway. So no, I can’t vouch for the state of mind of crazy people who would use this machine. Justifiably crazy, maybe, but crazy still. Maybe they all think they’re in heaven. They’re Puritans, pilgrims, people willing to take a one way unseen trip on a suicide machine because of their misery. I don’t see the dollar signs coming back in front of their eyes, they wouldn’t leave otherwise. The show established that Nora was psychologically unready for going through, so yeah, that’s the justification. Evidently she was the only one where the prospect of reunion with loved ones at any price wasn’t worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2021, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/102 "2021-05-19T04:13:13Z")
Or maybe, like the one scientist said, there are 140 million corpses floating in space. Just sayin’. Not everyone believes in heaven. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/103 "2021-05-21T12:12:32Z")
So, so, so disappointed in that ending. Just a horrible crash from the highs of the previous two seasons, just wow. @DrDeth, you will be glad to know that Lindelhof did the exact opposite of _LOST_ - he promised us a show with a central mystery, told us that he wasn’t going to explore the mystery, only its impact on a group of people… … and then had one of the major characters spend the last season doing exactly what Lindelhof promised us he wasn’t going to do: have them try to figure out what happened. And the very last scene is her telling us what happened to the 2%. (Maybe.) And it sucked because all of a sudden this lovely, beautiful, little TV show, a rare 2010-era American production which dealt with themes of grief and loss, just got reduced to ‘is Nora telling the truth?’, a really big problem because we were told that _the truth of the event doesn’t matter_. You can even see it in this thread- this show got reduced to the ‘what happened’ question, completely ignoring character development so we can argue the one plot point which we were told wasn’t going to be explored. Ugh. Dammit. Otoh, @Ion1 told me that every character looked like they hadn’t had a BM in 2 weeks, immediately rebranded the show ‘The Constipators’, and dammit if she wasn’t right. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/104 "2021-05-21T12:42:20Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > And it sucked because all of a sudden this lovely, beautiful, little TV show, a rare 2010-era American production which dealt with themes of grief and loss, **just got reduced to ‘is Nora telling the truth?** …ummmm, I think you missed the entire point of the ending, because: > [@JohnT](#): > > we were told that _the truth of the event doesn’t matter_ . **This was the point.** The truth of the event **doesn’t** matter. Why does it matter if Nora is telling the truth, or if Nora is spinning an elaborate tale? How does it change what you take away from the story? Does god exist? Millions of people worship some version of god. They go to Churches or Mosques or they join a cult. And some tell stories about how the disappearance of 2% of the population was divine intervention from the hand of god. And some people believe those stories. Because its a matter of faith. The finale was all about faith. The truth didn’t matter. What mattered was that Nora told a story and Kevin believed. He had faith. And the only reason we are debating whether Nora travelled to the other Earth is because what else is there to discuss? We’ve been waiting for you to finish the show 😃 It’s an interesting thing to debate. But ultimately (to those of us who enjoyed the finale) it doesn’t really matter. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/105 "2021-05-21T12:50:42Z")
I’m talking more of a show-runner perspective. If you are creating a long-running TV show and you explicitly say ‘we are not discussing X’ and then you discuss X, you fucked up in pretty much the opposite way when you said a decade earlier ‘it will all be explained’, and then never explained it. There were a million ways this show could have ended. There was no need for Nora to go along this path, this is _fiction_, and she is solely the creation of some writers who decided to have her try to answer the mystery which we were told wasn’t going to be answered. Yes, this may have made sense from a character perspective. So would almost any other scenario. They should’ve gone with one of those. This show was reduced to someone solving a mystery, I was told that wasn’t the point, and I am disappointed that ‘solving the mystery’ was what they used to further her character arc. It’s just lazy. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/106 "2021-05-21T13:10:49Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > This show was reduced to someone solving a mystery, …but it wasn’t. The mystery **wasn’t** solved. Did Nora go through to the other side? :: shrugs :: Don’t know, don’t care. It’s not the point. Why do you think that it **was** the point? > [@JohnT](#): > > It’s just lazy. It was anything **but** lazy. I absolutely love everything about the way the Lindelof runs his writers room. He ran the Watchmen writers room the same way. You can read about it here. > **[How to End a TV Show: An Exclusive Look at the Making of The Leftovers Finale](https://www.vulture.com/2017/06/leftovers-finale-behind-the-scenes-exclusive.html)** > > The hardest part of making The Leftovers was figuring out how to finish it. An exclusive look at the making of the last episode. It’s the polar opposite of “lazy.” It’s fine to not like the finale. It’s fine that it didn’t resonate with you. But there was nothing lazy about the decisions that went into the finale. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/107 "2021-05-21T13:58:43Z")
On the other hand, I was much less interested in the (ostensibly) mysterious parts of Watchmen because the answer was clearly “a super-powerful guy did it”. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/108 "2021-05-21T15:21:56Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > So, so, so disappointed in that ending. Just a horrible crash from the highs of the previous two seasons, just wow. Strange. Just about everyone else I’ve spoken to said it was one of the best show endings they’ve ever seen. And Nora’s story, and whether you believe it or not, is essential to that. Everything in this Vox article describes the brilliance of it to me: [The Leftovers finale: “The Book of Nora” answers everything. And nothing. - Vox](https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/4/15729312/the-leftovers-finale-recap-the-book-of-nora) ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/109 "2021-05-21T18:35:53Z")
I think the show really divides the audience in two - Those who prefer a linear plot which moves forward efficiently vs those who enjoy world building, vignettes, and character development for their own sake. I am the latter type. I wish ASoIaF books were longer. I love long meandering expositions. Nothing makes me happier than a creative mind exploring a quirky situation. And that’s how this show always struck me. It was an exploration of how society and individual personality types would respond to a catastrophic and inexplicable event. Obviously the year of COVID has had me thinking about it at intervals. I’ve been noting the places where they got things right, and the ones missed. (Denial as loyalty test; of course!) I’d like to watch it again now, as it’s been so long the details have slipped away from me. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/110 "2021-05-21T19:25:41Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The finale was all about faith. The truth didn’t matter. What mattered was that Nora told a story and Kevin believed. He had faith. And if he didn’t believe her, he wasn’t about to tell her that and risk losing her again. Justin Theroux has said he assumed Nora was inventing the story but it didn’t matter, because Kevin was there for her. I loved the ending and I thought it brought home what the story was really about: relationships. The Sudden Departure was just the basic premise to examine how different people reacted. It wasn’t science fiction. ---
**Author:** ![MoonMoon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonmoon/32/2959_2.png) [@MoonMoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoonMoon)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/111 "2021-05-21T20:02:08Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I think the show really divides the audience in two - Those who prefer a linear plot which moves forward efficiently vs those who enjoy world building, vignettes, and character development for their own sake. 100%. If you don’t enjoy a little (or a lot) of “WTF?” and you’re not the type of person who can just let things wash over you, you’re not going to enjoy the show. I’ve seen that hold true time and time again. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/112 "2021-05-22T06:54:42Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I’m talking more of a show-runner perspective. If you are creating a long-running TV show and you explicitly say ‘we are not discussing X’ and then you discuss X, you fucked up in pretty much the opposite way when you said a decade earlier ‘it will all be explained’, and then never explained it. > > There were a million ways this show could have ended. There was no need for Nora to go along this path, this is _fiction_ , and she is solely the creation of some writers who decided to have her try to answer the mystery which we were told wasn’t going to be answered. > > Yes, this may have made sense from a character perspective. So would almost any other scenario. They should’ve gone with one of those. This show was reduced to someone solving a mystery, I was told that wasn’t the point, and I am disappointed that ‘solving the mystery’ was what they used to further her character arc. > > It’s just lazy. The show went on for three seasons. They used up all of the plot from the novel in the first season, more or less. The first season is what you want. Little to nothing was solved in that season. That was all world building and development. The question is whether the possibilities were there to develop the show along a different line. I don’t think it would have been rewarding. The show hinted as such in the penultimate episode, where it’s implied that the Guilty Remnant have achieved political power in Kevin’s afterlife world. This was never a whatdunit, I agree, I think Lost (which I never watched) had more of that from what I can gather. But building out more Guilty Remnant logistics was not going to be rewarding past a point. They did do some of it in Season 2, with Evie and doing what they could with it. I don’t think a third season of that would have produced something worthwhile. That’s not what we care about, we identify with people losing their loved ones. The finale had to involve Nora heavily, as she was the most sympathetic character, the one who lost the most. Nora wouldn’t have been attracted to the Guilty Remnant concept, that made no sense to her. She was vulnerable to a science based solution to her problems, once Lily was taken away (not something that happened in the book, and manipulative from a story standpoint, but at least justifiable given circumstances) and Kevin had his issues. So that was a new element the show pursued. Just as far as “the reveal” goes, yes, the showrunners gave anyone who doesn’t want to believe Nora’s story an out. They intentionally made it so. The 3rd season was written backward from Nora’s story, it was always going to end with Nora’s story. So blame them for that if you don’t like it. They got everything they wanted. Got the people who don’t want resolution an out. Put us in Kevin’s shoes, don’t give us any visuals, so we only get what he gets, Nora’s story. And Nora’s story is a great ending. The whole series was about the 98% and their perspective, it was never put in perspective of how it was for the 2%. Well they did it, and I thought it was great, to nail fresh, authentic emotion in a finale is so, so rare. Given the material and the fact that two seasons of material had to be developed beyond the original source, what was written was brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![codinghorror](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/codinghorror/32/4242_2.png) [@codinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/codinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/113 "2021-07-10T21:12:17Z")
> [@MoonMoon](#): > > No other show has affected me they way The Leftovers did (and still does). Welcome to the fold. Seconded. Several episodes are among the best things I’ve _ever_ seen on a screen. The one with the Lion, my god… and they stuck the landing too. Not every great show manages a truly great ending. (and a very funny aside on the lion episode – [Meet the man who played “Vigorous Hand Job Guy” on The Leftovers.](https://slate.com/culture/2017/05/meet-the-man-who-played-vigorous-hand-job-guy-on-the-leftovers.html)) > Well, I guess every male has done his own research for this role throughout their life. You know, I just used my life experience. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2021, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/114 "2021-07-12T03:22:32Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I think the show really divides the audience in two - Those who prefer a **linear plot which moves forward efficiently** vs those who enjoy world building, vignettes, and character development for their own sake. Is the bolded part an accurate phrasing of what you mean? Because I can’t see linear-plot people making it halfway through the first episode. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2021, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/115 "2021-07-12T03:35:53Z")
Part of what makes the Leftovers so much fun is that you really have no idea why things are happening until it’s time to be revealed. In some circles it’s known as hiding the thumb—revealing the who, what, when, where, but hiding the why. S2E1 is a good example of this. Why the change in theme song? Who is the cave lady? Where are the Garveys?? It wasn’t until halfway through the episode when we first get a glimpse of Matt that I figured out I was even watching the right show. Brilliant bloody storytelling this is. More people should see it. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/116 "2021-07-12T16:42:26Z")
Thanks for turning me on to this series in the other thread (the “what if a miracle happened with indisputable proof…” one). I just binged season one over the weekend. A very interesting premise, solid writing, and am looking forward to getting at round to season 2. Highly unsettling, and I appreciate that so far the series has immersed itself in gray. ---
**Author:** ![codinghorror](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/codinghorror/32/4242_2.png) [@codinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/codinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2021, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/117 "2021-07-12T19:50:12Z")
Fantastic! The show really is a textbook example of “ok, we know miracles exist… now what?” Can’t recommend it highly enough. ---
**Author:** ![MoonMoon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonmoon/32/2959_2.png) [@MoonMoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoonMoon)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2021, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/118 "2021-07-12T23:54:13Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Thanks for turning me on to this series in the other thread (the “what if a miracle happened with indisputable proof…” one). I just binged season one over the weekend. A very interesting premise, solid writing, and am looking forward to getting at round to season 2. Highly unsettling, and I appreciate that so far the series has immersed itself in gray. Please keep us posted! We can live vicariously through you as you experience the show for the first time. 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2021, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/119 "2021-07-13T06:53:38Z")
It is a story incredibly well told, with great casting of the actors and interesting twists and turns and a fantastic soundtrack to boot. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2021, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398/120 "2021-07-17T15:34:07Z")
> [@HelenGawn](#): > > > [@TruCelt](#): > > > > I think the show really divides the audience in two - Those who prefer a **linear plot which moves forward efficiently** vs those who enjoy world building, vignettes, and character development for their own sake. > > Is the bolded part an accurate phrasing of what you mean? Because I can’t see linear-plot people making it halfway through the first episode. Yes, that was my point. Those folks will not like this show. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leftovers-i-dont-understand-the-praise-open-spoilers/843398.md?page=7)