# The legality of deterring mailbox baseball **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2011, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646 "2011-08-22T12:24:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/161 "2021-06-26T10:36:11Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@Chickenwrangler](#): > > As regard the word “Gypsy” It’s difficult to keep up with the rapid changing acceptable and appropriate terms these days. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, now people brag about having Gypsy blood. Again, feel free to discuss this, just not here. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/162 "2021-06-26T12:26:41Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > In any event, a concrete filled mailbox would be willful, wanton, and reckless because there is no purpose other than to harm a would be trespasser. One can imagine a situation where a homeowner installed such a mailbox, but with the expectation that it would result in merely a broken bat, not injury to the batter. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/163 "2021-06-26T12:36:02Z")
Sorry if I missed it upthread. > **[Driver paralyzed after plowing into an Ohio man’s fortified mailbox sues...](https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-driver-hits-mailbox-property-20210621-j6e2mr3xkjhyta44u35yom3mxm-story.html)** > > Cletus Snay was driving to work in December 2016 when his truck hit a patch of black ice and slid into the formidable aforementioned mailbox in Matthew Burr’s yard in Bellevue, Ohio. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/164 "2021-06-26T14:18:07Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > Sorry if I missed it upthread. There was _ **extensive** _ discussion of this incident upthread, beginning with post #90. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/165 "2021-06-26T14:32:40Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > There was _ **extensive** _ discussion of this incident upthread, beginning with post #90. Sorry, I did a quick search for “Snay,” the person injured, and got no matches. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/166 "2021-06-26T14:38:56Z")
He was named in a lot of the links but not in any of the actual posts. In my posts he was “plaintiff.” ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/167 "2021-06-26T15:12:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@UltraVires](#): > > > > In any event, a concrete filled mailbox would be willful, wanton, and reckless because there is no purpose other than to harm a would be trespasser. > > One can imagine a situation where a homeowner installed such a mailbox, but with the expectation that it would result in merely a broken bat, not injury to the batter. It is worth remarking that in the Martin case > [@](#): > > The jury at the trial were told that they had the option of returning a verdict of manslaughter rather than murder, if they thought that Martin “did not intend to kill or cause serious bodily harm”. However, the jurors found Martin guilty of murder by a 10 to 2 majority. That is, his intentions made a big difference in of what crime exactly he was considered guilty. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/168 "2021-06-26T15:26:27Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > However, the jurors found Martin guilty of murder by a 10 to 2 majority. Sidebar: Where does a jury verdict not have to be unanimous? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/169 "2021-06-26T15:35:22Z")
It was the Crown Court at Norwich, and > [@](#): > > (1) Subject to subsections (3) and (4) below, the verdict of a jury in proceedings in the Crown Court or the High Court need not be unanimous if— > > (a) in a case where there are not less than eleven jurors, ten of them agree on the verdict; and > > (b) in a case where there are ten jurors, nine of them agree on the verdict. > **[Juries Act 1974](https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/23/section/17)** > > An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to juries, jurors and jury service with corrections and improvements made under the Consolidation of Enactments (Procedure) Act 1949. That page is for “UK Public General Acts”; I do not know the precise applicability of jurisdiction— but if you kill someone in England it seems you may find yourself on trial there. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/170 "2021-06-26T16:13:18Z")
Well, ya ninja’d me on that. But it is interesting to note that until recently, you only needed 10 to convict in Louisiana. EDIT: It was more or a ninja a bit over half hour ago when I started typing this, but just got back to it after being busy for a bit. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/171 "2021-06-26T16:53:46Z")
A post was split to a new topic: [Gypsy / Romani discussion (spun off from GQ thread)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gypsy-romani-discussion-spun-off-from-gq-thread/945074) ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/172 "2021-06-28T15:09:34Z")
I read about 20 posts or so into the thread before asking this: Why not build one of those mailboxes that has a brick-covered exterior? And is pretty obviously so? Surely there can be no liability there. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/173 "2021-06-28T15:18:39Z")
The legal issues come when you deliberately build a mailbox as a trap, whose purpose is to hurt someone. It is usually OK to just build a sturdy mailbox whose purpose is to get mail. Some areas do have special rules, however. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/174 "2021-06-28T15:28:04Z")
I’ve heard of people vandalizing mailboxes. I had no idea is was so common that people were modifying their mailboxes as a result. I would have guessed it was a exceedingly rare. I guess I was wrong. It’s never happened to me, and I’ve never see it in any area I lived in. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/175 "2021-06-28T15:32:05Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I would I think it is rare - which is why when it happens (and particularly when someone dies/gets injured attempting it) it makes the news. Its somewhat analogous to child abductions (obvious difference in importance here) - there really aren’t that many of them, but with the nationalization of the news cycle you hear about all of them and begin to think that kids are getting grabbed off the street everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/176 "2021-06-28T16:55:54Z")
I think that it’s fairly rare to find people who do this sort of thing for fun (especially since in the classic form, it takes multiple such people, one driver and one batter), but once you have someone who’d do it once, they’ll probably do it again. So only a few people (those who live near the troublemakers) will get their mailbox vandalized, but those few people would see them vandalized repeatedly. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/177 "2021-06-28T17:18:28Z")
When I was a kid it was pretty common. Mailbox smashing would happen mostly in late summer and fall, which not coincidentally was when 16-18 year olds were given the family car to spot deer in preparation for deer season. Kids would say they were spotting deer, when in reality we err they were drinking beer. I never smashed mailboxes, but my cohorts did. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/178 "2021-06-28T18:02:38Z")
I remember a single spate of mailbox smashings where I grew up, but it was not common to my knowledge. I believe we had a mailbox with a noticeable dent in it for quite a while. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/179 "2021-06-29T02:18:27Z")
Agreed. You can plant oak trees or build the giant dragon mailbox posted earlier. You can put a razor wire fence around your yard. What you cannot do is have a bamboo pit in your yard, covered with grass or a gun which discharges when a door is opened and then claim that “the sonofabitch shouldn’t have been there in the first place.” The law gives landowners leeway from lawsuits against trespassers, except that you cannot deliberately try to harm them if they trespass. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2021, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646/180 "2021-06-29T07:58:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > One can imagine a situation where a homeowner installed such a mailbox, but with the expectation that it would result in merely a broken bat, not injury to the batter. I think we have plenty of experience that this is not a valid defense. Much like felony murder, when you do something you’re responsible for even unexpected consequences. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-legality-of-deterring-mailbox-baseball/593646.md?page=10)