# The Leiby Kletzky case. Can anybody begin to explain this? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 14, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leiby-kletzky-case-can-anybody-begin-to-explain-this/588947 "2011-07-14T00:22:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leiby-kletzky-case-can-anybody-begin-to-explain-this/588947/21 "2011-07-14T17:31:06Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Amish: > [http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/January-February-2005/feature\_labi\_janfeb05.msp](http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/January-February-2005/feature_labi_janfeb05.msp) > [Sexual Abuse in the Amish Community - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2365919&page=1) > [About Amish: Sexual Abuse among the Amish](http://aboutamish.blogspot.com/2010/09/sexual-abuse-among-amish_08.html) > > Jewish: > [http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/sexandgender/3258/orthodox\_jews\_begin\_to\_reckon\_with\_sexual\_abusehttp://www.jewishjournal.com/thegodblog/item/sexual\_abuse\_plagues\_brooklyns\_orthodox\_jewish\_community\_20090506/](http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/sexandgender/3258/orthodox_jews_begin_to_reckon_with_sexual_abusehttp://www.jewishjournal.com/thegodblog/item/sexual_abuse_plagues_brooklyns_orthodox_jewish_community_20090506/) > [http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/nyregion/14abuse.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/nyregion/14abuse.html) > [CHILD SEX INDICTMENTS PLAGUE ORTHODOX JUDAISM | Mystery Worshiper's Blog](http://mysteryworshipers.wordpress.com/2011/06/25/child-sex-indictments-plague-orthodox-judaism/) > [http://blog.beliefnet.com/windowsanddoors/2009/10/sexual-abuse-in-the-jewish-com.html](http://blog.beliefnet.com/windowsanddoors/2009/10/sexual-abuse-in-the-jewish-com.html) > [http://www.jpsych.com/abuse.html](http://www.jpsych.com/abuse.html) > [http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed\_messiahcom/2011/03/coverups-have-made-sex-abuse-more-common-in-haredi-community-rabbi-says-456.html](http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2011/03/coverups-have-made-sex-abuse-more-common-in-haredi-community-rabbi-says-456.html) > > That is what I got right away from googling “abuse in amish [orthodox] communities”. It’s a fairly well known phenomenon. Obviously hard numbers are difficult to find, because the problem is that the community is insular and shields the predators. Or _did_; these things seem to be improving, especially in the Orthodox communities. I haven’t read thru all your cites, but they don’t appear to establish what was asked. The ones about the Amish don’t appear to have much by way of hard figures. The “Mystery Worshipper” one appears to be from an “anti-Zionist” website, and elsewhere contains such gems as > [@](#): > > What does America really need? > > Through education and return to sound, Biblical interpretation, we need to overthrow the power of Jewish supremacism. It will do little good to topple the present government if this is not confronted. With incredible speed, supremacist Jews will only resurface like toxic mushrooms after a thundershower. The rest appear to be mostly anecdotal, except for the review of the article on sexual abuse among Orthodox Jews, which is a bit more scholarly. That states rather clearly - > [@](#): > > According to the article, sexual abuse was reported by 26% of the respondents surveyed. The authors are careful to state that this is not an estimate of the prevalence of sexual abuse among Orthodox Jewish women, as the study methodology was not capable of determining this. What was requested was reasonable proof “that there are (per capita) more pedophiles amongst Amish or Orthodox Jews or any “insular religious group” that’s not an out-and-out personality cult than there are in the general American population”. Anecdotes and blogs aren’t going to do it. Do you have real evidence? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leiby-kletzky-case-can-anybody-begin-to-explain-this/588947/22 "2011-07-14T17:43:21Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What was requested was reasonable proof “that there are (per capita) more pedophiles amongst Amish or Orthodox Jews or any “insular religious group” that’s not an out-and-out personality cult than there are in the general American population”. Anecdotes and blogs aren’t going to do it. Do you have real evidence? > > Regards, > Shodan For the record, I only skimmed over the cites. If there was offensive content, I apologize. And I specifically said that hard numbers are difficult to come by because the problem in these communities is that abuse is _covered up_. That means that there are _no hard numbers_. Look at this cite (again): [http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/nyregion/14abuse.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/nyregion/14abuse.html) It references specifically the phenomenon I’m talking about (and also shows that things are changing, which I pointed out also). Yes, it says children are not being abused more in these families than in other families (although how they know that when they are just beginning to look into this, I cannot say). But, I didn’t say the rate of abuse was higher; I said it was a breeding ground for pedophiles; meaning, a place where they work relatively uninterrupted. These communities distrust the larger population, so these issues often go addressed. That was point, and I am far from the only person making it. I am done with this hijack now. I only meant to answer a poster’s question with (what I thought) was a well-known answer. I did not intent it to pull this thread off the rails, and I am sorry it has. The authorities say this child wasn’t even sexually abused, so all this is pretty pointless. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leiby-kletzky-case-can-anybody-begin-to-explain-this/588947/23 "2011-07-14T18:01:59Z")
miss elizabeth: > [@](#): > > I said it was a breeding ground for pedophiles; meaning, a place where they work relatively uninterrupted. That’s not what a breeding ground is. The term implies that the place is more conducive to CREATING them than other places would be. Of course, by nature, things are kept quieter in insular communities. And people are still people, any large enough group will have some with major psychological problems. I’m not denying that. I was challenging the “breeding ground” statement, which it seems I interpreted differently from how you meant it. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leiby-kletzky-case-can-anybody-begin-to-explain-this/588947/24 "2011-07-14T18:18:35Z")
I just think in cases like this that the brain is a machine, and the machine sometimes breaks and stops working properly. Really, all strange behavior comes down to that, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leiby-kletzky-case-can-anybody-begin-to-explain-this/588947/25 "2011-07-14T18:40:08Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I just think in cases like this that the brain is a machine, and the machine sometimes breaks and stops working properly. Really, all strange behavior comes down to that, IMHO. Yeah, sure. But one thing I get tired of hearing is “The guy was crazy. Crazy people do things that don’t make sense.” That’s such an oversimplification and generally just sweeps the real issue under the rug. The thing is, crazy people do things that make absolute 100% sense – to them. They usually live in meticulously logical worlds that the rest of us don’t get. I remember a case from about a decade ago where a young man gutted a kid in a public restroom. Most people dismissed him as crazy. But the guy had a very good reason for it. He loved the kid and wanted to send him straight to God. OK, that kind of makes it more creepy, but also far more interesting and it makes a little more sense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-leiby-kletzky-case-can-anybody-begin-to-explain-this/588947.md?page=1)