# The "Lemon" Car : Do they Really exist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 28, 2005, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lemon-car-do-they-really-exist/287205 "2005-01-28T23:26:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lemon-car-do-they-really-exist/287205/21 "2005-01-31T01:12:54Z")
I once owned a white Toyota Tercel. It wasa great car, overall. But the plastic/rubber seals around the doors/windows/heater/AC started to rot. Water was getting in _everywhere!!!_ :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: I sold it to a Used Car Dealer, for a good price. Totally went to hell 3 weeks after I sold it. First time I ever got the better of a Used Car man. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lemon-car-do-they-really-exist/287205/22 "2005-01-31T03:09:47Z")
My sister is suffering from a lemon… a 1996 Saturn that she bought brand-new. She’s had to replace the clutch, the radiator, the engine, and has chronic leaking problems in the sunroof. The “check engine light” comes on and off erratically. I have a '99 Saturn with no problems. Lemons do exist although I suspect they’re not as common as they once were. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lemon-car-do-they-really-exist/287205/23 "2005-01-31T05:02:26Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Well, again, I find it incredulous that the same component can fail time after time. let’s face it, there are millions of cars on the road…and most start up every morning. I think that most “lemons” are the product of either: > (1) bad mechanices 9the guy installs the part the wrong way) > (2) Defective design…Volkswagen cars had a long-running ignition problem, caused by defective Bosch ignition cols…dealers had to keep replacing these > But to have MULTIPLE failure of differnet systems, at the same time…this can’r happen! statistics don’t allow it! I know your point about the mechanics and the defective parts. But if you think there can’t be real lemons, I think you haven’t talked to owners of AMC cars, for one. There are others. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lemon-car-do-they-really-exist/287205/24 "2005-01-31T05:52:49Z")
Dad got a SEAT 131, from the factory where my uncle worked. It worked beautifully for 5 years, at which point it already had a lot of miles and got replaced by another SEAT 131. I don’t remember the exact details, but this second one was the same model, same factory, there had been no design modifications. It even was the same color. And it was in the shop every two months. When it wasn’t the AC it was the clutch and then 4th gear wouldn’t go in and then… Part of it is faulty initial assembly, part of it sloppy fixing, but it any case there are cars that you’d be better off pulling apart completely, cleaning everything, making sure everything is there, and putting them back together. We refer to those two cars as “good twin” and “evil twin”. ---
**Author:** ![aeropl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f05b48/32.png) [@aeropl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aeropl)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lemon-car-do-they-really-exist/287205/25 "2005-01-31T06:26:11Z")
Just by basic statistics you can figure out that there will be lemons. If there are millions of cars being built yearly with a small percentage having major problems, there’s a good chance that thousands will have multiple problems. Remember, the average three-year-old car had 55 problems per 100 vehicles [according to Consumer Reports](http://autos.yahoo.com/consumerreports/article/which_vehicles_hold_up.html). ---
**Author:** ![scule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@scule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scule)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lemon-car-do-they-really-exist/287205/26 "2005-01-31T15:31:28Z")
I had a Pontiac Sunbird (1993 model) that was the definition of lemon. In the seven years we managed to coax out of that crime against engineering, it had the following problems: - Had to replace the alternator 4 times - Had to replace the battery 3 times - Had to rewire the spark plugs twice - Had to replace the water pump - Had to fix the AC twice - Had to replace the entire brake system twice - Had to replace the radio once (why the hell would the _radio_ ever break?) - Had to replace the transmission (we got rid of it by then) Yes, there are lemons, and this was one of them. ---
**Author:** ![scule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@scule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scule)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lemon-car-do-they-really-exist/287205/27 "2005-01-31T15:35:02Z")
Incidently, that was after less than 140,000 km, which is low-mileage use for a seven year old car. And the saddest part was when a guy I knew at a GM dealership tried to tell me that that was normal wear and tear for any car. We’ve since bought a Honda Civic (2001) that has had no problems. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lemon-car-do-they-really-exist/287205/28 "2005-01-31T16:42:45Z")
**ralph,** you misdefine “lemon.” Legally, at least, a lemon is not (necessarily) a car with multiple system failures, but with a problem or problems that significantly impair the value or utility of a car _that cannot be fixed._ “Cannot be fixed” is generally defined as “three failed attempts at repair by an authorized repair facility.” Sua [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lemon-car-do-they-really-exist/287205.md?page=1)