# The "liberal?" media and the economy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 30, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452 "2003-10-30T15:22:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/1 "2003-10-30T15:22:09Z")
[I’m assuming the media will gush about how wonderful this is, just like they used to do under the Clinton Administration.](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=568&ncid=749&e=1&u=/nm/20031030/bs_nm/economy_gdp_dc) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. economy rocketed ahead at its fastest pace in more than 19 years in the third quarter of 2003 as consumers, their wallets fattened by tax cuts, went on a buying spree, an unexpectedly strong government report showed on Thursday. No, I’m not. Has the economy been as bad as the media always reports? Will the media spin this news in a negative light? Answer quickly, as this just came out. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/2 "2003-10-30T15:32:42Z")
“Answer quickly, as this just came out”? What, we’re not supposed to take time to think about it? When you get a point of anamalous data that goes agains a trend, of COURSE you should evaluate it. That said, it’s currently the top story at the New York Times, Washington Post, and CNN websites. Not exactly a case of the liberal media downplaying a news story. I’m no economist; I’ll be interested in what economists say about how this figures into what’s been going on for the past couple years. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/3 "2003-10-30T15:37:14Z")
And **Beagle** , look at comments from the [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/30/business/30CND-ECON.html?hp) story: > [@](#): > > The economy expanded during the three months that ended in September at the fastest rate since 1984, the government reported this morning, offering hope that the long economic malaise has finally ended. [opening paragraph] > … > “It looks like the economy is shrugging off its lethargy,” said Richard D. Rippe, chief economist of Prudential Securities. “But there are some parts of this that are not sustainable.” > … > Twice since 2001, the economy has grown at least 4 percent in a single quarter, only to fall back into a slump that prevented companies from hiring new workers and helped create the worst job loss in 20 years. Now, however, even many forecasters who remained pessimistic over the last three years say that hiring will probably begin increasing. > … > The possibility of an economic turnaround also offers a salve to the White House, where President Bush and his aides have repeatedly said the tax cuts passed since he took office would eventually revive growth. There aren’t animated graphics of dancing stockbrokers on the website, but I can hardly imagine the story having a more positive tone. Looks like your original assumption was right. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/4 "2003-10-30T15:38:31Z")
INAE, nor am I particlarly familliar w/ this issue, but, the snippet you provided, “fastest pace in more than 19 years” sounds as if it’s one of those statistical percentage things. If things go from one to two, there’s a 100% increase, if things go from 100 to 150 there’s only a 50% increase. “Fastest pace” certainly seems like it needs more evaluation. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/5 "2003-10-30T15:43:04Z")
Yep, front page news on several sites. I"m not sure if they’re _all_ Liberal though. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/6 "2003-10-30T17:52:31Z")
In my defense: I put “liberal” in quotes with a question mark. All I would say is that most journalists in the major media\* are registered Democrats. If they can overcome whatever partisan feelings they may have and be good journalists, let me be the first to congratulate them. If I am wrong about my guess, I’m glad. Right-wingers that criticized Clinton for _every_ military move he made as “wagging the dog” pissed me off also. OTOH, considering 9/11, I feel that the media has been poor-mouthing “Bush’s” economy more than it should. The financial channels are the only place to get economic news at higher than a middle school level. Maybe that is the real problem? \*With Fox, talk radio, and the net this whole “liberal media” thing is beginning to come down to laziness more than actual bias. You can find any bias of your choice in reality. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/7 "2003-10-30T17:58:02Z")
Wow, you’re denouncing someone for bias before they’ve even said anything. Eager young pup, ain’tcha? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/8 "2003-10-30T18:25:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > \*\*OTOH, considering 9/11, I feel that the media has been poor-mouthing “Bush’s” economy more than it should. \*\* So far, I think this is the only debatable point in this thread. Although I don’t have cites handy, I’ve seen stuff stating that 9/11’s impact on the economy has actually been greatly exaggerated. Shall we rescue this thread by debating this point instead? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/9 "2003-10-30T18:52:17Z")
Anyone who believes in the “liberal media” myth should be mocked. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/10 "2003-10-30T19:09:44Z")
Anyone who denys the media is liberal should be mocked. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/11 "2003-10-30T19:11:34Z")
Anyone who mis-spells the word _denies_ should be mocked also, of course. D’oh! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/12 "2003-10-30T19:24:16Z")
[_What Liberal Media? The Truth about Bias and the News_ by Eric Alterman](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0465001769/qid=1067542201/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/002-6171810-0540068?v=glance&n=507846). Damn good read, so I’m told (haven’t got to it yet), but I assume the people ringing **Beagle** ’s bell and yours have some good de-debunking available to cite? ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/13 "2003-10-30T19:44:09Z")
I thought my point about the economy not being as bad as reported for quite a while is debatable. How can you even calculate the costs of 9/11? It wrecked the tourism industry in _Orlando_ for quite a while. I don’t think there is any way to calculate the damage from 9/11. I am sure it reaches into the many billions of dollars. The airline industry is just scratching the surface. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/14 "2003-10-30T23:22:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > How can you even calculate the costs of 9/11? It wrecked the tourism industry in _Orlando_ for quite a while. I don’t think there is any way to calculate the damage from 9/11. I am sure it reaches into the many billions of dollars. The airline industry is just scratching the surface. It also had some positive economic effects, at least as measured by GDP, by causing a huge binge in government and private spending on defense and homeland security. So, you have to throw that into the mix. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/15 "2003-10-30T23:56:37Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by DanielWithrow \* \*\*And **Beagle** , look at comments from the [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/30/business/30CND-ECON.html?hp) story: Not only that, but the NY Times sent me a “news alert” telling me about this article. These news alerts are something you can get if you sign up for them at their website and I would say they send out an average of about 1 per week…So, roughly speaking, they are prioritizing this story at least as the top story of the week. ---
**Author:** ![telesis2001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@telesis2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/telesis2001)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/16 "2003-10-31T08:05:37Z")
I know this data just came out, but doesn’t this estimate get revised in about 30-60 days? What is the typical revision, down or up? ---
**Author:** ![telesis2001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@telesis2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/telesis2001)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/17 "2003-10-31T08:29:06Z")
Sorry about the last post. No hijack intended. Hypothetical questions: If the negative state of the economy _has_ been exaggerated in the media then: -a negative spin on this GDP data would be expected. (Y/N) -a positive spin on this GDP data would be…? If the negative state of the economy has _not_ been exaggerated in the media then: -a negative spin on this GDP data would be…? (pessimistic? cautious?) -a positive spin on this GDP data would be expected. (Y/N) If I could fill in the unknowns here, I think I might have a better sense of how to interpret the apparent exuberance over this report. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/18 "2003-10-31T14:12:50Z")
From my perspective, if anything the media have been underplaying the miserable economy. Which is probably a good thing, since a lot of the economy has to do with perception and confidence, by both business leaders and consumers. The more doom and gloom you hear, the longer the economy is probably going to take to recover. As far as a “liberal media” bias, it’s probably true that most journalists tend to be liberal. It’s probably also true that most economic reporters and people in decision making positions in the media (editors, op ed columnists) tend to be conservative, at least from a fiscal POV. So who knows. Maybe they’ll say the economy is good but (correctly IMO) not credit the President. As for the airline industry hurting, yeah, 9/11 killed them, but they were already doing pretty badly prior to 9/11, as many companies were cutting back on travel spending and investing in remote groupware technologies. Now that they Euro is strong perhaps tourism should improve in Florida, a nice vacation destination for Europeans when the dollar is weak. But wait, the Governor’s brother has pissed off most of the Europeans. They might go somewhere else instead. And we’ll see whether oil prices stabilise or if the prices continue to creep up. That affects the airlines a lot (as well as the incredibly high “9/11 taxes” on air travel), as well as the rest of the transport and manufacturing industries. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/19 "2003-10-31T15:00:16Z")
**ShibbOleth** : Can you clarify, with numbers and other economic data, what is “miserable” about the economy? ---
**Author:** ![dal\_timgar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@dal\_timgar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dal_timgar)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-liberal-media-and-the-economy/210452/20 "2003-10-31T17:49:03Z")
Some economists were discussing this on the boob tube last night. An economist working in New York involved with Wall Street said it was great. An economist in Washington said there was no corresponding increase in job growth so the statistic doesn’t mean much. The economy is a continuously evolving system. What statistics mean is not constant. It could be argued that television doesn’t produce anything, it just waste people’s time. Keynes died in 1946. He didn’t know anything about television. Economists are technological morons. What do they say about depreciation of computers? Dal Timgar