# The Lies of Michael Moore. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 26, 2004, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278 "2004-06-26T04:26:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/181 "2004-06-28T21:00:30Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > According to reports I’ve seen, Moore claimed that not one member of Congress had a son or daughter “fighting in America’s armed forces”. Well, it turned out that those reports were lies, as others have pointed out. As I have mentioned countless times before to the fellows that swallow the lies of the right: when are you going to complain to, or stop thrusting, those dubious sources? BTW I do take Moore to task too, but I agree with Roger Ebert, Ebert did took Moore to task for the liberties he took in _Bowling for columbine_, for **F9/11** Ebert essentially said that Moore seems to have taken the past criticisms to heart and has now made a better documentary, I think a piece of work has to stand on it’s own; and attacking the man who made it, is the stuff logical fallacies are made of. You **Liberal/Libertarian** , out of all people, should know this already… ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/182 "2004-06-28T21:02:13Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I’m sure you do not realize just whom you are criticizing. Ms. Ifill is a PBS icon. She is among they who provide you your talking points. In another thread, you said I had a liberal bias without knowing anything about my views. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4994992&postcount=65](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4994992&postcount=65) I explained to you that my confusion with your post had nothing to do with liberal/conservative but you didn’t acknowledge your presumptious error. I gave you the benefit of the doubt since this is a large board and you post quite a bit. Here again, you imply that \*\*you with a face \*\* has a liberal bias… in fact, you have stated it with the same smug authority. So, how sure are you? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/183 "2004-06-28T21:15:25Z")
Ordinarilly, when I see hoofprints in the sand, I think horse, not zebra. If you’re not a leftist, then just say so, and stop being coy about it. As far as YWTF, he has advised that we should embrace F9/11 — even if it is only half-true! — and vote against Bush, or else we are morally bankrupt. Who but a leftist would say such a thing? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/184 "2004-06-28T21:22:18Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Ordinarilly, when I see hoofprints in the sand, I think horse, not zebra. . . And then, if someone points to the damn zebra and goes, _Look, Libertarian, this time it’s a damn zebra,_ you shrug your shoulders and go, > [@Liberal](#): > > Ordinarilly, when I see hoofprints in the sand, I think horse, not zebra. . . ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/185 "2004-06-28T21:24:07Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Ordinarilly, when I see hoofprints in the sand, I think horse, not zebra. If you’re not a leftist, then just say so, and stop being coy about it. As far as YWTF, he has advised that we should embrace F9/11 — even if it is only half-true! — and vote against Bush, or else we are morally bankrupt. Who but a leftist would say such a thing? When I see the shining examples of “truth” from the right that you brought to this discussion, I then think that indeed there is bankruptcy, but not from the left in this case. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/186 "2004-06-28T21:33:59Z")
by **Lib** > [@](#): > > I’m sure you do not realize just whom you are criticizing. Ms. Ifill is a PBS icon. She is among they who provide you your talking points. Funny you should post such a useless, baseless comment. Throughout this thread you’ve stooped to using other people’s opinions in proxy of factual-based argumentation that _you_ have come up yourself. Go see the damn movie and stop relying on “reports that I have seen”. When come back, bring credibility. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/187 "2004-06-28T21:55:46Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I’m sure you do not realize just whom you are criticizing. Ms. Ifill is a PBS icon. She is among they who provide you your talking points. Jesus Christ, **Lib**. She’s a television executive. She’s not the Pope. No one is required to agree with her, no matter how closely their politics align. ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/188 "2004-06-28T21:57:29Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > As far as YWTF, he has advised that we should embrace F9/11 — even if it is only half-true! No, not quite. What he/she said was " If you find truth in a least half of the material, you won’t want to vote for Bush." I see a difference there. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/189 "2004-06-28T21:59:11Z")
> [@You](#): > > Go see the damn movie and stop relying on “reports that I have seen”. When come back, bring credibility. I’d sooner inflict myself from head to toe with papercuts and swim in gasoline than see this movie. Sitting in a dark room surrounded by idiots while staring at an animation illusion does not necessarily imbue one with any useful information or credibility. Clearly, if you will grant Ms. Ifill none, you will not grant it to me were you to learn that I wrote the damn screenplay. So you and your co-jackals can get off my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/190 "2004-06-28T22:00:45Z")
> [@Club 33](#): > > No, not quite. What he/she said was " If you find truth in a least half of the material, you won’t want to vote for Bush." > > I see a difference there. No, you do not. If there is truth in half the material, then the material is half true. ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/191 "2004-06-28T22:10:13Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > No, you do not. If there is truth in half the material, then the material is half true. Yes, yes I do. He never said that there was truth in half of the material. He said “if you find truth in half of the movie…” That doesn’t imply that only half is true, only that you may only find half of it believable. Or are you just being puposefully dense? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/192 "2004-06-28T22:14:07Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > No, you do not. If there is truth in half the material, then the material is half true. And when it was demonstrated (and I saw the movie too) that your sources did lie by saying that in the movie MM says that “not one member of Congress had a son or daughter “fighting in America’s armed forces””, that then you will not give those right wing sources the time of day anymore, right? ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/193 "2004-06-28T22:19:07Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Ordinarilly, when I see hoofprints in the sand, I think horse, not zebra. If you’re not a leftist, then just say so, and stop being coy about it. What nonsense. I have said many times I don’t consider myself liberal or conservative and I’m definitely not a leftist. In fact, in response to your “accusations” of bias, I explicitly mentioned that I don’t support Hillary Clinton. I don’t see why you have to go around assuming things about other posters. In my case, you happened to be plain wrong. Just address the substance of the arguments, and leave it be. Now, let’s assume that **ywtface** is indeed a leftist/liberal and you were spot on with the label. Does that imply he is an automaton who agrees with everything that liberals in the media say? That’s exactly what you implied: > [@Liberal](#): > > I’m sure you do not realize just whom you are criticizing. Ms. Ifill is a PBS icon. She is among they who provide you your talking points. Do you realize how insulting that is? May be you will if someone smugly branded you a mouthpiece of the LP. I am only asking you to take a step back and re-evaluate what you are writing. It might not be a trend but I’ve seen multiple posts from you which are presumptious and/or insulting. Let me quote one more post from you earlier in this thread: > [@Liberal](#): > > I thought it was a pretty good post, especially for Mhendo What the hell was that supposed to be? a compliment? **Mhendo** worked his ass off to address a lengthy review. In my time here, s/he has been a valuable contributor to the board. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/194 "2004-06-28T22:22:27Z")
> [@Club 33](#): > > Or are you just being puposefully dense? People can be plain _dense_ without be purposefully so. I think that’s what’s happening here. And **you with the face** is a _she_, for the record. ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/195 "2004-06-28T22:26:50Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > People can be plain _dense_ without be purposefully so. I think that’s what’s happening here. > > And **you with the face** is a _she_, for the record. Good Point, **Monstro**. **Lib** , please scratch “purposefully” from that last post. Also, my apologies to **YWTF**. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/196 "2004-06-28T22:28:32Z")
> [@Club 33](#): > > Yes, yes I do. > > He never said that there was truth in half of the material. He said “if you find truth in half of the movie…” That doesn’t imply that only half is true, only that you may only find half of it believable. Or are you just being puposefully dense? I refuse to decide how to vote based on something I find to be only half believable. If you call that “dense”, then I’m dense. And purposely. > [@](#): > > And when it was demonstrated (and I saw the movie too) that your sources did lie by saying that in the movie MM says that “not one member of Congress had a son or daughter “fighting in America’s armed forces””, that then you will not give those right wing sources the time of day anymore, right? Isn’t that exactly what I did? I went to PBS. Is it considered “right wing” now? > [@](#): > > Mhendo worked his ass off to address a lengthy review. In my time here, s/he has been a valuable contributor to the board. You don’t even know his sex. Why are pretending to be a longtime fan? I, on the other hand, am a genuine admirer of Mhendo. He is possibly the brightest leftist on the board. From him to whom much has been given, much is expected. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/197 "2004-06-28T22:38:38Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > You don’t even know his sex. Why are pretending to be a longtime fan? I, on the other hand, am a genuine admirer of Mhendo. He is possibly the brightest leftist on the board. From him to whom much has been given, much is expected. Then why did you insult him like that? That was a pretty mean-spirited remark to make to someone you allegedly admire. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/198 "2004-06-28T22:50:54Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I refuse to decide how to vote based on something I find to be only half believable. If you call that “dense”, then I’m dense. And purposely. Statement: Hitler was a hate-monger who regularly had sexual intercourse with male gorillas. Adolph Hitler = hate-monger…believable Adolph Htler = whore of gorillas…not believable I just want to understand your line of thinking for a sec. Are you saying that the believable claim about Hitler is invalidated by the unbelievable claim? In other words, if I decide to believe from the statement that Hitler is a hate-monger while casting aside the troubling thing about gorillas, does that make _me_ dense? It’s not the movie that should decide people’s votes. It’s the facts presented in the movie that should do this. If the movie lists 10 reasons for not voting for Bush, and 5 of the reasons are accurate and 5 are exaggerations or flat-out lies…you’re still left with 5 good reasons for not voting for the president. This was **you with the face’s** point. Are you telling her that this logic is wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/199 "2004-06-28T23:03:58Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I’d sooner inflict myself from head to toe with papercuts and swim in gasoline than see this movie. Sitting in a dark room surrounded by idiots while staring at an animation illusion does not necessarily imbue one with any useful information or credibility. Clearly, if you will grant Ms. Ifill none, you will not grant it to me were you to learn that I wrote the damn screenplay. So you and your co-jackals can get off my ass. Ignorance truly is bliss. I’m an atheist and I went to see **The Passion of the Christ** so I’d know what people were talking about rather than relying on reviews and posts. ---
**Author:** ![litost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@litost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/litost)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278/200 "2004-06-28T23:04:12Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > You don’t even know his sex. Why are pretending to be a longtime fan? I, on the other hand, am a genuine admirer of Mhendo. He is possibly the brightest leftist on the board. From him to whom much has been given, much is expected. Irrelevant. I don’t have to know the poster’s sex to value their contribution to the SDMB. Secondly, I am not the only one to view your “compliment” as back-handed. Was it? If so, why? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lies-of-michael-moore/252278.md?page=11)