# The Lincoln Project **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 10, 2020, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550 "2020-05-10T20:51:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/41 "2020-07-10T08:54:36Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > From 2021 we look back with cynical eyes I, uh, I’m not even sure if I want to be asking this, but, uh, Mr. Time Traveler–what happens? NO! Wait! Don’t answer that! Ignorance is bliss. As for the ads, I’m nowhere near the target audience, and have zero idea of their actual effectiveness, but I admit I’m enjoying them very, very much. As to the people behind them; well, I figure it’s like World War II. Once we’ve beaten the Axis, we’ll have to deal with Stalin and Co., but for now: > **[This man is your friend : Russian : he fights for freedom.](https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc230/m1/1/)** > > Photograph of a smiling Russian soldier in uniform and helmet, carrying a rifle. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/42 "2020-07-10T11:45:45Z")
Good analogy, MEBuckner. Just yesterday I finally watched the film “Patton.” The last bit of trouble the general lands himself in, is when he badmouths the Russians toward the end of the war. This almost cost him his job, but Ike essentially said, “You’re right, George…but too soon. Save it for after we beat the Nazis.” ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/43 "2020-07-10T14:45:26Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > As to the people behind them; well, I figure it’s like World War II. Once we’ve beaten the Axis, we’ll have to deal with Stalin and Co., but for now: I’d like to think that Trump has been so bad, that those who stand against him can engage in reasoned disagreement and mutual respect after he’s gone. Personally, I think I’ll think twice before demonizing a conservative with whom I disagree (on the condition he or she didn’t support Trump). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/44 "2020-07-10T14:51:29Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Wait - there are “innocent GOP Senators”? Because I’m pretty sure they all opted to cover for Trump’s criminal behavior during the impeachment vote. > > Maybe Mitt, but that’s about it. It is like the “good cops”-you know, the ones that stand by and do nothing when the bad cop acts, then say nothing about it afterward until their jobs are on the line. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/45 "2020-07-10T15:42:21Z")
Thanks, missed that. Responding to a Lincoln Project tweet this morning, I quoted that and asked them what they were going to do once Trump himself was gone. I don’t really expect an answer in light of the many hundreds of responses the tweet received but I am curious. The Trumpist base will continue to dominate Republican politics for the next decade, imo, even if it’s an increasingly losing cause. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/46 "2020-07-10T15:51:48Z")
If a Republican 1) expects that Trump will lose in November, and 2) become a highly reviled figure after his defeat, then it makes perfect sense to come out strongly against him now, before his impending defeat, so as to pivot all the better once the new Biden presidency takes charge and take the reins of the new post-Trump Republican party. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/47 "2020-07-10T16:28:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Because [this one](https://youtu.be/bk6d4TgO2NY) looks like it’s aimed at one very specific target market, and I doubt he’s going to see it if it isn’t aired during _Fox and Friends_ . (Also, that is some weapons-grade gaslighting right there.) Weapons-grade is right! I would not like to be in the room when The Orange One watched that. Actually, I would very much like to be present, but wearing a hazmat suit so that none of the splatters of organic matter landed on my body when he exploded. Seriously, as amusing as that was, why on earth was it made? It’s not going to influence any votes. The only possible real-life value that could have would be if Cheeto saw it and had a total, irreversible melt-down as a result. But that’s not going to happen, plus we know that if it did, his base would still vote for him. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/48 "2020-07-10T16:43:42Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Seriously, as amusing as that was, why on earth was it made? It’s not going to influence any votes. The only possible real-life value that could have would be if Cheeto saw it and had a total, irreversible melt-down as a result. But that’s not going to happen, plus we know that if it did, his base would still vote for him. I’m not sure of that. In my network of family and friends who are nominally Trump supporters, I’ve seen quite a few signs of uncertainty. The dam holding back pent-up frustration about Trump’s incompetence and immorality is cracking. Messaging by conservatives to other conservatives are the pin-hole leaks that will ultimately break the entire edifice. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/49 "2020-07-10T18:06:08Z")
Here’s the theory I heard: Those ads, at least some of them, are aimed at Trump personally. They are intended to get him mad. When he’s mad, he tends to explode in ways that might appeal to his base, but which independent voters dislike. ---
**Author:** ![MoonMoon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonmoon/32/2959_2.png) [@MoonMoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoonMoon)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/50 "2020-07-10T18:13:52Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Here’s the theory I heard: Those ads, at least some of them, are aimed at Trump personally. They are intended to get him mad. When he’s mad, he tends to explode in ways that might appeal to his base, but which independent voters dislike Yes, and they are, ghoulishly perhaps, pretty certain they can cause a meltdown on a mental and/or physical level that would take him out of the game. It was leaked [whisper echo ‘it was leaked’] that an epic meltdown preceded the emergency Walter Reed visit last November. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/51 "2020-07-10T19:26:16Z")
The Lincoln Project people know that Trump can’t leave shit alone. So they run the ads during times/channels Trump will be watching and maybe Trump “melts down” but, even if not, he’ll probably waste a day rage-tweeting or yelling at his staff about shit rather than get his act together for reelection. It’s all head games. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/52 "2020-07-10T20:40:02Z")
> [@MoonMoon](#): > > Of course. I just see a lot of Democrats enthusiastically embracing them as being “on our side,” when really the only thing we share in common is a loathing of Trump and Trumpism. I understand your cyinicism about the long game. But for now, the Lincoln Project has explicitly endorsed Joe Biden. “Biden is the clear choice when it comes to compassionate and decent leadership. In a battle of heart, mind, and character Joe Biden wins by a landslide. We need to ensure that’s reflected in the vote this November.” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Y5TiyJ7JWRE/maxresdefault.jpg "How A President Leads") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5TiyJ7JWRE) ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/53 "2020-07-10T20:53:47Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Here’s the theory I heard: Those ads, at least some of them, are aimed at Trump personally. They are intended to get him mad. When he’s mad, he tends to explode in ways that might appeal to his base, but which independent voters dislike. Okay, that makes sense. As long as outlets like Fox will run the ads. It doesn’t do any good to show them in places where he will never see them. (Unless they go so viral that he can’t help but see them somewhere.) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/54 "2020-07-10T22:49:06Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > But it’s also possible that a lot of them genuinely thought, in the beginning, that Trump could be manipulated into behaving as a normal Republican. Many may have held off on disavowing him under that delusion. > > A lot of people held such beliefs back in 2016 and early 2017, you’ll recall. There was not only talk of “pivoting,” there were people who really thought it was going to happen. From 2021 we look back with cynical eyes, and that leads us to assume that no one could ever have _really_ thought that Trump would behave normally–but the fact is that many people _did_ think it was a reasonable expectation. > > It was only with the accumulation of proofs that Trump was never going to adhere to the usual GOP pieties and policies, that they realized they couldn’t go on with business as usual. (And I’d argue that the several disgraceful episodes of Trump kowtowing to Vlad, yucking it up with Kislyak in the Oval, etc., played a large role in that realization.) Yes, there’s a typo in the above. So shocking an occurrence has never before happened! > [@MEBuckner](#): > > I, uh, I’m not even sure if I want to be asking this, but, uh, Mr. Time Traveler–what happens? > NO! Wait! Don’t answer that! > Ignorance is bliss. What a witty response to this never-before-seen phenomenon: a typo in a post! And, yes, the USA (and Britain and the other Allies) did gladly accept whatever help Stalin could provide in the fight against the Nazis–and at no moment did any intelligent person believe that Stalin was a friend of the Western democracies. It’s happened throughout human history. _The enemy of my enemy is my (at least temporary and conditional) friend._ Wikipedia has: > [@](#): > > The earliest known expression of this concept is found in a [Sanskrit] treatise on [statecraft], the _[Arthashastra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthashastra)_ , which dates to around the 4th century BC … > **[The enemy of my enemy is my friend](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_enemy_of_my_enemy_is_my_friend)** > > "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is an ancient proverb which suggests that two parties can or should work together against a common enemy. The exact meaning of the modern phrase was first expressed in the Latin phrase "Amicus meus, inimicus inimici mei" ("my friend, the enemy of my enemy"), which had become common throughout Europe by the early 18th century, while the first recorded use of the current English version came in 1884. > A Sanskrit treatise on statecraft, the Arthashastra of Kautil... I suppose some enterprising wikipedia editor could update that page with the Lincoln Project-and-the-Democrats, should they so choose. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/55 "2020-07-10T23:48:54Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > What a witty response to this never-before-seen phenomenon: a typo in a post! I’m sorry. I was not trying to give you any actual grief for a simple typo. It’s just that this year has been so damned weird and awful that I couldn’t resist making a joke about someone posting from next year, and how we might react to that. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2020, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/56 "2020-07-11T13:36:10Z")
I’ll bet some folks at Lincoln Project were up all night cobbling together a Roger Sone-themed ad. Looking forward to it. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/57 "2020-07-11T16:26:33Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I understand your cyinicism about the long game. But for now, the Lincoln Project has explicitly endorsed Joe Biden. > “Biden is the clear choice when it comes to compassionate and decent leadership. In a battle of heart, mind, and character Joe Biden wins by a landslide. We need to ensure that’s reflected in the vote this November.” I think they realize that, while Trump is the most important battle to be fought right now, it’s not the only battle that needs to be won to win the war. The Republican party has been going off the rails for years, maybe decades now. It needs to be reined in, and that needs to be done by Republicans themselves. And getting their fellow Republicans to realize that Democrats are not fundamentally evil, and that you can vote for them without destroying the country, is one such battle. There’s years worth of propaganda to be undone, which will not be easy, but The Lincoln Project seems like a good start. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2020, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/58 "2020-07-11T18:51:06Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > The Republican party has been going off the rails for years, maybe decades now. It needs to be reined in, and that needs to be done by Republicans themselves. And getting their fellow Republicans to realize that Democrats are not fundamentally evil, and that you can vote for them without destroying the country, is one such battle. I agree. Our political system would be much better if we had two rational political parties that were both offering alternative but plausible policies. There would be the obvious benefit of not having a political party that is irrational and is only offering delusional policies. But there would also be a benefit because the rational party would no longer be able to slack off because it’s the only rational choice. If both parties were worthy choices then they would both have to work at being better. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2020, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/59 "2020-07-11T22:48:59Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > … It’s just that this year has been so damned weird and awful that I couldn’t resist making a joke about someone posting from next year, and how we might react to that. Okay. I’m sure we all hope that we’ll look back on 2020 as, very possibly, the worst year for the USA in its history—instead of looking back on it as merely the _beginning_ of hell. . . . > [@Horatius](#): > > The Republican party has been going off the rails for years, maybe decades now. It needs to be reined in, and that needs to be done by Republicans themselves. And getting their fellow Republicans to realize that **Democrats are not fundamentally evil, and that you can vote for them without destroying the country** , is one such battle. Excellent point. No doubt this concept (emphasized by me in your quote) has been a tough one for many conservatives to accept. It’s greatly to their credit that they’ve done so. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2020, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/60 "2020-07-13T03:43:03Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > > [@MEBuckner](#): > > > > … It’s just that this year has been so damned weird and awful that I couldn’t resist making a joke about someone posting from next year, and how we might react to that. > > Okay. I’m sure we all hope that we’ll look back on 2020 as, very possibly, the worst year for the USA in its history—instead of looking back on it as merely the _beginning_ of hell. Amen to that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550.md?page=4)