# The Lincoln Project **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 10, 2020, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550 "2020-05-10T20:51:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/61 "2020-07-14T18:58:04Z")
You know, it was hard to tell how bad trump was really gonna be to start out. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2020, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/62 "2020-07-14T18:59:59Z")
I am not so sure. 80% of the republicans I know, that did vote for trump, are now diehard “dump trump”. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/63 "2020-07-15T11:55:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You know, it was hard to tell how bad trump was really gonna be to start out It was? You could start with 1989, when he paid for a full-page NY Times ad, demanding (in essence) to kill innocent children because they’re black. Followed by three more decades of vulgar, racist, sexist, incompetent stupidity. (ETA: If that was a whoosh, I apologize.) ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/64 "2020-07-15T13:49:03Z")
If you didn’t realize how idiotic Donald Trump was in 2016, you just weren’t paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/65 "2020-07-15T13:52:02Z")
Some people who are saying they don’t like Trump will vote for him anyway, they just don’t want friends/relatives/coworkers/etc to know. I know a guy like that. He might stay home but pretty sure he’s not voting for Biden. He might vote libertarian. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/66 "2020-07-15T14:01:23Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Okay. I’m sure we all hope that we’ll look back on 2020 as, very possibly, the worst year for the USA in its history—instead of looking back on it as merely the _beginning_ of hell. I’ve come to the conclusion that is is indeed the worst year so far except maybe during the worst depths of the Civil War. Covid has killed more people on a per-year basis than any other war, and will certainly exceed American civilian citizen deaths due to all forms of terrorism since the country began\* before it’s over, perhaps even before the year is out. \*That’s including all lynchings, all police shootings whether justified or not, and classical ideological terrorism. It’s not including Native American conflicts even though Covid will certainly surpass all of the above and eat into the massacres of the post 14th Amendment Indian conflicts. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/67 "2020-07-15T14:02:43Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Some people who are saying they don’t like Trump will vote for him anyway, they just don’t want friends/relatives/coworkers/etc to know. This is true but I feel like it’s less true than in 2016. Voting for the incumbent president, even one people might not like, is different from voting for the TV con man. Trump’s supporters have four years of empowerment and I have to believe that the number of secret shamed Trump supporters is significantly lower now than it was four years ago. Partially connected to this, Biden is leading the “haters”, people who dislike both Trump and Biden, by a large margin. Not by 100% though (obviously) so there’s plenty of room for people to be represented as a Trump-disliking-Trump-voter yet still not be in the majority. ---
**Author:** ![Mickyfinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19b73/32.png) [@Mickyfinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickyfinn)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/68 "2020-07-15T19:59:31Z")
I remember in 2016, watching His Orangeness making fun of the reporter with Cerebral Palsy (was it?), And thinking to myself, out loud, “this guy CAN’T be president.” What’s happened since makes that comical and exposes how my brain couldn’t even imagine how it could get much worse. Needless to say it’s been a long 4 years. ---
**Author:** ![Mickyfinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19b73/32.png) [@Mickyfinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickyfinn)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/69 "2020-07-15T20:11:26Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > If he’s sincere in how he describes Trump, well, I don’t see how he could have any respect for his wife. I can’t put my head around it either. The $$ must be worth it for them for her to stay, or she’s got a golden . Personally, if I had to look for a new wife ANY microscopic support of Trump would be a deal breaker. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/70 "2020-07-15T21:15:53Z")
Yes. My child, when he was three, showed more maturity and empathy than that. I am not exaggerating - this is serious. It simply doesn’t occur to normal human beings to make fun of someone like that. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/71 "2020-07-15T22:08:37Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I’ve come to the conclusion that is is indeed the worst year so far except maybe during the worst depths of the Civil War. I suspect that this will become even more-obviously true by year’s end, as we look at the totals. And even those who don’t die of the virus may experience lasting effects. And it didn’t have to be that way. How anyone can defend Trump’s handling of the pandemic provides a startling revelation of the human capacity for self-delusion. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/72 "2020-07-16T00:45:20Z")
The Lincoln Project isn’t the only group of self-identified Republicans attacking Trump. I just saw [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1a_yModrSQ)–it’s a bit of a mash-up of more than one ad, but it starts off with one ad from “Republican Voters Against Trump” that consists of a speech by Ronald Reagan, juxtaposed with images from the Trump Administration. To me, it’s an absolutely devastating piece; but again, I’m not the target audience. I really wish I knew if these things are even reaching their target audience, and if they’re having any effect. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/73 "2020-07-16T01:04:48Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > That’s including all lynchings, all police shootings whether justified or not, and classical ideological terrorism. It’s not including Native American conflicts even though Covid will certainly surpass all of the above and eat into the massacres of the post 14th Amendment Indian conflicts. Covid is a viral disease that’s killing people. If you’re going to compare the numbers to prior American death totals from a lot of other causes, you OUGHT to include Native American death counts from smallpox. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/74 "2020-07-16T02:52:40Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You know, it was hard to tell how bad trump was really gonna be to start out. I didn’t think Trump would be quite this bad. I expected Republicans to put more of a brake on his worst ambitions and that maybe the weight of the presidency would temper him a bit. But he’s largely pushed out his biggest critics and just careens downhill as fast as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/75 "2020-07-16T09:59:50Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > If you’re going to compare the numbers to prior American death totals from a lot of other causes, you OUGHT to include Native American death counts from smallpox. Despite the urban legends, it was not even caused by gross negligence let alone intent. A lot of heart disease and cancers are preventable in theory, too, and I wasn’t counting those even though Covid only promises to be the third highest cause of death in America this year behind them (never mind that there are a lot of types of heart disease and cancer.) It would be a different story if there were a fully developed germ theory that early settlers waved away as fake news, or if there were a cure for cancer that Trump did not let the CDC publicize. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/76 "2020-07-16T11:19:42Z")
The Master Speaks: (in sum, on at least one occasion, deliberate infection was planned, and may have been implemented) > **[Did whites ever give Native Americans blankets infected with smallpox?](https://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1088/did-whites-ever-give-native-americans-blankets-infected-with-smallpox/)** ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/77 "2020-07-16T11:39:44Z")
And plus, I was counting American citizens or else I would have had to count the millions of civilians America killed in wars in the past century. They add up to a horrible year for the world but do not count toward America’s Worst Year. To spin it the opposite way, when certain Native Americans waged war on the colonies, were they considered so American/British in their nationality that they should be considered treasonous? The obvious answer to me is a definite “no” until some time in the 19th century. The 1924 Indian Citizenship Act put the question to final rest, but I was being generous because after the Civil War, the government was so centralized and the spread of European Americans so ubiquitous, that campaigns against tribal members feels for some reason like attacks on fellow Americans in a way that it did not in the 18th century, as tragic as the events were. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/78 "2020-07-16T11:51:51Z")
Good points, IMHO. I guess I’m just personally less concerned about distinguishing US citizen deaths from the rest — but that is the premise of this particular discussion, so your observations are helpful. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2020, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/79 "2020-07-16T19:09:28Z")
Note that the germ theory of disease wasnt accepted until the late 1800’s. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2020, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550/80 "2020-07-17T13:36:13Z")
[Vox has a pretty lengthy article](https://www.vox.com/2020/7/17/21316641/trump-lincoln-project-gop-2020) about The Lincoln Project, its goals, its supporters and its detractors (both from the right and the left). I found it interesting. One thing the article mentions (and has been mentioned in this thread) is that The Lincoln Project sees Trump as their primary audience and a large part of their goal is to get inside his head. For this reason, I’m less worried about a 2024 incarnation of The Lincoln Project if only because I don’t see Biden (or most sane people) going apeshit over an ad and spending the day on Twitter or twenty minutes at a rally going on about what the Lincoln Project said and how they’re all wrong loser stupid-faces. It’s a formula pretty unique to the mentality of our current president. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lincoln-project/853550.md?page=5)