# The Little Mermaid is GASP! Black **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 7, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651 "2019-07-07T01:30:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/201 "2019-07-11T21:34:58Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Technically, Ariel was modelled after Alyssa Milano. Actually, it was Sherri Stoner who served as the live-action model for the character: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/1XA5aJDLuw0/hqdefault.jpg "Mermaid Model: Sherri Stoner") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XA5aJDLuw0) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/202 "2019-07-11T22:05:52Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The idea that Halle Bailey was the most qualified candidate seems to strike so many (white) people as crazy. To me, as a black woman, this skepticism is quite discomfiting. And also IMO not at all convincing. It’s ignoring the elephant in the room, namely the obvious fact that any actress playing Ariel has got to be an absolutely kick-ass singer. It’s one thing for live-action Belle or Cinderella to be an inexperienced or undistinguished vocalist, because the character isn’t noted for singing. But Ariel is supposed to have the most beautiful singing voice in the whole undersea world, isn’t she? Certainly a huge chunk of the plot hinges on how wonderful and memorable her voice is. Add to that the fact that Ariel is supposed to be only 16, and you realize that the combination of characteristics—(1) having exceptional singing talent and beautiful voice; (2) looking no older than a teenager; (3) physically resembling cartoon Ariel—rules out a lot of potential choices. I would not be at all surprised to learn that Halle Bailey was absolutely the best fit for the part, completely irrespective of any diversity considerations. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/203 "2019-07-11T22:48:37Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I would not be at all surprised to learn that Halle Bailey was absolutely the best fit for the part, completely irrespective of any diversity considerations. Same here. With Lin-Manuel Miranda being part of this thing’s creative team, think about the missed opportunity _not_ to use “race-bending” to optimize the talent pool. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/204 "2019-07-11T23:16:38Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I have the same problem with people the same race as me (or pretty close\*.) For instance, in _Stranger Things_ I sometimes confuse the skinny white kid who got sent to the Upside Down with the skinny white kid who found Eleven. Also camera guy and used-to-be-a-jerk guy. The first one isn’t just you. I spend a lot of my viewing time trying to find specific phrases to distinguish between Will and Mike, so I can tell apart the two skinny white boys with kind of long dark brown hair. But camera boy has bad hair and used-to-be-a-jerk guy has good hair. I have a lot harder time telling apart the older teenage white boys with good hair. I’m definitely below average in telling people apart by faces. The things I tend to look at are skin color, hair color, and hair style. If two people are similar in all three categories, it’s a helluva thing to tell them apart, and I have to come up with specific phrases (“this brown-haired white boy student has a slightly longer nose than that brown-haired white boy student; this short-haired black boy student has bigger ears than that short-haired black boy student”). I suspect that if I grew up in a population where everyone shared hair color, and where hair styles didn’t vary so much, I would’ve zeroed in on different characteristics most likely. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/205 "2019-07-12T00:32:34Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > Again, the issue for me is changing the look of an iconic (for 30 years, anyway) Disney character. I would be making the same point if the live-action version was going to change Ariel’s fish tail / scales from pale green to pink or purple, or changing her hair from red to yellow. > > I’m approaching this from a character / brand perspective, not racial. Disney has spent millions upon millions of dollars for three decades promoting the Ariel character / brand based on a rigidly defined set of physical characteristics. Changing those characteristics now for no good reason (or at least no reason of which I’m aware) seems counterproductive to me. You realize we have no idea what the final look of the character is going to be, right? Maybe Disney creates a brand new look for Ariel so that skin color is the least of the changes. Or maybe Disney’s design makes it really clear that the only difference is skin color, but the rest of the character is clearly the same Ariel. And if you can’t figure out with the marketing upside is for changing the race of a beloved character, you’re not thinking very hard. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/206 "2019-07-12T16:34:29Z")
[Relevant to the conversation](https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156453738465975&set=a.10156227359780975&type=3&theater) ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/207 "2019-07-12T17:31:41Z")
[quote=“Dropo, post:201, topic:836651”] Actually, it was Sherri Stoner who served as the live-action model for the character: [/QUOTE] Alyssa Milano was indeed an inspiration for Keane’ character design, particularly the face. Stoner was the live action reference model. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/208 "2019-07-12T20:06:23Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The first one isn’t just you. I spend a lot of my viewing time trying to find specific phrases to distinguish between Will and Mike, so I can tell apart the two skinny white boys with kind of long dark brown hair. > > But camera boy has bad hair and used-to-be-a-jerk guy has good hair. I have a lot harder time telling apart the older teenage white boys with good hair. > > I’m definitely below average in telling people apart by faces. The things I tend to look at are skin color, hair color, and hair style. If two people are similar in all three categories, it’s a helluva thing to tell them apart, and I have to come up with specific phrases (“this brown-haired white boy student has a slightly longer nose than that brown-haired white boy student; this short-haired black boy student has bigger ears than that short-haired black boy student”). > > I suspect that if I grew up in a population where everyone shared hair color, and where hair styles didn’t vary so much, I would’ve zeroed in on different characteristics most likely. My worse case of mixing up white guys was the 1998 film \*The Thin Red Line, \*when only at the very end of the movie did I realize that Jim Caviezel and Adrian Brody were two completely different actors playing two completely different characters. Of course, the uniforms and crew cuts didn’t help. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2023, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/209 "2023-06-04T12:30:19Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Not only that, but I hear that Scuttle is going to be played by a sandpiper. Looks like I was wrong on this. > **[‘The Little Mermaid’ Director Explains The Real Reasons Why Scuttle Was...](https://www.justjared.com/2023/05/24/the-little-mermaid-director-explains-the-real-reasons-why-scuttle-was-changed-from-seagull-to-gannet/)** > > See why the change happened in the first place ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/210 "2023-06-06T02:37:28Z")
The character of Scuttle was also changed from male to female, in addition to changing from a gull to a gannet, but for some reason that doesn’t seem to have bothered the vocal wokeophobes who were so upset about Halle Bailey’s race. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/211 "2023-06-06T18:14:11Z")
I haven’t worked with Disney on a creative production but I have worked with the company and I think there are a couple of points worth throwing into the discussion: 1. The people who work at Disney - that is, not the top levels of management, but 99% of the employee force - come across as wild-eyed, excited, happy people who believe in love and kindness. So while it may well be that the top level of the company said, “Go and find some ‘visually mismatched to the traditional character’ person to cast, to rile up the public and make a pre-release scandal!” There’s also the chance that some creative person in the production team simply didn’t care about Disney’s visual history of the character, thought the lady could sing and act well, and decided to hire her because that person thought she came across on her demo tape the way that she should and because why can’t a fish have brownish skin? 2. The tradition of the company is to “let creative people be creative” and mostly act in a hands-off way. In their experience, that makes the most money. And, from working with them, I can certainly say that there seems to be a culture of building walls between each small division and letting them run independent (which makes cross-team initiatives complicated, because there’s no shared management hierarchy except at the very very top). So while I won’t say that it’s impossible that this was all some sort of clever scheme for free publicity, my personal guess would be that it was the director or casting director who made the choice and, to the extent that there was a money-making thought in all of it, it was the decision at the very top to let the production team do what they were doing, knowing where that might lead. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/212 "2023-06-08T11:28:37Z")
Well, the fact that she’s Black [has certainly had an effect on the film’s reception in China.](https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2023/6/8/chinas-backlash-against-little-mermaid-exposes-hollywood-dilemma) ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/213 "2023-06-08T12:03:51Z")
When you go deep enough – under the sea – EVERYTHING’s black. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/214 "2023-06-08T12:58:27Z")
**The Little Mermaid is GASP! Uninteresting.** Seriously, Disney has _ONE SCREENPLAY_ used over & over, in all the Princess films. “A Princess goes on a journey of adventure & self-discover, with her spunky animal sidekick. She overcomes adversity, & finds True Love.” One script. Zero imagination. Making her Black does not fix that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/215 "2023-06-08T13:18:16Z")
While that certainly describes a lot of them, and specifically The Little Mermaid, I don’t think that it’s true of all of them. Some Disney Princesses are from movies where they’re not the main character, like Jasmine or Esmeralda. Some of them aren’t actually princesses, at least not until they marry the prince, like Belle or Cinderella. Some of them don’t find romance, like Merida or Elsa. And, of course, there’s a lot of variety possible in a “journey of adventure and self-discovery”: I mean, most stories can be summed up as a “journey of adventure and self-discovery”. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/216 "2023-06-08T15:40:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Some of them aren’t actually princesses [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/uF76FxiScz8/maxresdefault.jpg "Moana- The Criteria of Being a Princess.") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF76FxiScz8) ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/217 "2023-06-08T15:49:13Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > **The Little Mermaid is GASP! Uninteresting.** > > Seriously, Disney has _ONE SCREENPLAY_ used over & over, in all the Princess films. > > “A Princess goes on a journey of adventure & self-discover, with her spunky animal sidekick. She overcomes adversity, & finds True Love.” > > One script. Zero imagination. > > Making her Black does not fix that. On the other hand, a good story deserves to be retold many times. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/218 "2023-06-08T16:46:57Z")
In the original, the Mermaid dies. ---
**Author:** ![StraightTalk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straighttalk/32/9982_2.png) [@StraightTalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StraightTalk)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/219 "2023-09-16T02:11:22Z")
I just watched the movie. Everything about Halle Bailey and her performance was spot on. My only complaint is that her hair was not red enough. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/220 "2023-09-16T02:27:16Z")
Back when the musical _Miss Saigon_ was staged on Broadway some Asian actors complained when Jonathan Pryce played a role and his character was mixed Asian/Caucasion. Since he played a mixed role, what did it matter that he had no Asian blood. I’ve seen people who had Asian ancestry but since they didn’t get the epicanthic fold on their eyes it wasn’t apparent right away. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651.md?page=12)