# The Little Mermaid is GASP! Black **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 7, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651 "2019-07-07T01:30:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/81 "2019-07-09T01:35:32Z")
On the other hand, correcting an injustice in the original film, [Flounder](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/6/60/Profile_-_Flounder.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20190312045328) will be played by an actual [Flounder.](https://previews.123rf.com/images/azuzl/azuzl1710/azuzl171000068/88150386-cute-cartoon-flounder-isolated-on-a-white-background.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/82 "2019-07-09T02:00:52Z")
> [@split\_p\_j](#): > > I’m black, and I agree with this. I think it’s fine to have more black characters, but why not make them new and original. > > For example, I was 12 when I saw ROTJ in the theater. I didn’t think I couldn’t be Luke because he was white and I wasn’t. Yeah, but you did get Lando. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/83 "2019-07-09T02:09:25Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yeah, but you did get Lando. ([Obligatory link to _Chasing Amy_ comic-con scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L9io-b9Uew)) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/84 "2019-07-09T02:29:17Z")
Well, now, that was special. Someone on Facebook was talking about this casting, and a friend of hers mentioned that in Andersen’s story, the mermaid was green. I politely questioned this, quoting a few lines from a couple of translations to show that her skin color isn’t ever described. In response I got called a racist dipshit, a terrible teacher, and an idiot. Some folks need to stop posting drunk. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/85 "2019-07-09T02:41:29Z")
My initial instinct is exactly the same as you guys here. It’s just people getting upset once again that a character previously depicted as white is now being played by a black person. And, yes, that is a stupid thing to get upset about. However, I have seen another claim that I cannot so easily dismiss: that redheads/gingers are being replaced lately, either by minorities or just someone with a different color of hair. I don’t watch enough newer movies and shows to know if this is a thing or not. But, if it is, then I can understand being upset about this. I’ve also seen some people asking “why do they so often replace them with black actors?” They claim that black people are represented in film close to their actual numbers in society, unlike other minorities who you barely see. They aren’t against changing a character’s race so much as saying that other minorities should get higher priority. However, again, I don’t watch a lot of more modern stuff, so I don’t know how much of a problem this actually is. So while it’s tempting to just lump everyone in with the first argument, which I agree is poor (as long as the character’s race isn’t important to the plot), I do think we should be open to other arguments as well. I would like to know what people think about those two other claims. Are redheads being replaced in a lot of modern cinema or TV? Are black people overrepresented compared to other minorities? And do either of these have legitimacy in not liking the Ariel casting? I myself just want her to have the long, flowing hair that Ariel has, as it looks good under water. It would feel cheap if they leave this out. And I think it would look fine if it were red. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/86 "2019-07-09T02:49:50Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > On the other hand, correcting an injustice in the original film, [Flounder](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/6/60/Profile_-_Flounder.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20190312045328) will be played by an actual [Flounder.](https://previews.123rf.com/images/azuzl/azuzl1710/azuzl171000068/88150386-cute-cartoon-flounder-isolated-on-a-white-background.jpg) See? Even he is giving the new Ariel the side-eye. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/87 "2019-07-09T03:11:18Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Are redheads being replaced in a lot of modern cinema or TV? Are black people overrepresented compared to other minorities? And do either of these have legitimacy in not liking the Ariel casting? Kirsten Dunst dyed her hair red to play Mary Jane Watson in three _Spiderman_ movies. Was there a lot of outrage directed at Columbia Pictures or director Sam Raimi for not using an actual redhead? How about when Zendaya dyed her her red to play MJ in the most recent Spiderman reboot? No, there wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/88 "2019-07-09T03:29:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Well, now, that was special. > > Someone on Facebook was talking about this casting, and a friend of hers mentioned that in Andersen’s story, the mermaid was green. > > I politely questioned this, quoting a few lines from a couple of translations to show that her skin color isn’t ever described. > > In response I got called a racist dipshit, a terrible teacher, and an idiot. > > Some folks need to stop posting drunk. Are you sure? “They were six beautiful children; but the youngest was the prettiest of them all; **her skin was as clear and delicate as a rose-leaf** , and her eyes as blue as the deepest sea; but, like all the others, she had no feet, and her body ended in a fish’s tail.” Sounds to me like she’s really, really, really white. Or bright red, depending on the species of rose. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/89 "2019-07-09T03:50:42Z")
When I heard the little mermaid was going to be black, I thought about it for 5 seconds and then went about my day. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/90 "2019-07-09T03:59:41Z")
Re: Mulan > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [The trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yq1SA3l-yI), to me, looks kind of like a trainwreck. _gasp!_ Oh not to me! I love Chinese movies. [Wuxia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuxia) and historical movies are my favorite genres of Chinese movies. When they’re combined, as they often are, I’m like a kid in a candy store. The Mulan trailer gave me goosebumps. I can’t wait until I see it in the theater on a big screen (the trailer, but also the movie, of course). I don’t know how much like the [2009 Chinese movie](https://youtu.be/M4OSxjVARC0) this version will be, or how wuxia it will be, but at least thank goodness (IMO) there’s no talking dragon or singing. It’s likely to give a whole new generation an appreciation for Chinese historical movies and introduce them to legends such as Jet Li, Donnie Yen, Li Gong and Pei-Pei Cheng. Last but not least, I want it to do well because it’s directed by Niki Caro (Whale Rider, North Country, McFarland, USA, The Zookeeper’s Wife). I’ve liked those as well as everything else she’s directed. (On-topic: I’ve never seen the animated Little Mermaid, but I’m looking forward to seeing the live-action version. I bet it will be fantastic!) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/91 "2019-07-09T04:13:38Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Sounds to me like she’s really, really, really white. Or bright red, depending on the species of rose. The translations that have been quoted say “rose-leaf,” not rose petal. [Rose-leaves](https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/rose-leaves-on-white-background-260nw-637202512.jpg) are green. So she should look like the [girl on the right.](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c8/e1/73/c8e173b0d81aa224c88ecb8ed00edb2c.png) On the other hand, [this translation](http://www.andersen.sdu.dk/vaerk/hersholt/TheLittleMermaid_e.html) says “rose petal,” but says nothing about the color of her skin, only it’s texture. > [@](#): > > Her skin was as soft and tender as a rose petal, and her eyes were as blue as the deep sea, but like all the others she had no feet. Her body ended in a fish tail. But other passages indicate she is definitely white, not green: > [@](#): > > Lowering her gaze, she saw that her fish tail was gone, and that she had the loveliest pair of white legs any young maid could hope to have. > [@](#): > > Then the little mermaid lifted her shapely white arms, rose up on the tips of her toes, and skimmed over the floor. > [@](#): > > Only the helmsman remained on deck as the little mermaid leaned her white arms on the bulwarks and looked to the east to see the first red hint of daybreak, for she knew that the first flash of the sun would strike her dead. Then she saw her sisters rise up among the waves. They were as pale as she, Given the sensibilities of the day, it’s unlikely that Hans Christian Andersen would have imagined the mermaid as being anything but white. As far as I’m concerned, all this is irrelevant to the casting of the movie, however. The original story was pretty horrible, with the mermaid feeling horrible pain in her feet whenever she walked, losing the Prince to a rival Princess, and being required to stab the Prince as he slept if she wanted to live. (She refused, and got turned into sea foam instead.) So changing the ethnic background of the mermaid, and presumably the Prince, is trivial compared to the other changes. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/92 "2019-07-09T05:50:38Z")
> [@bump](#): > > there’s no reason not to make Ariel black, but nor is there any reason that they need to either. So they wound up casting, as Freeform said, the “incredible, sensational, highly-talented, gorgeous Halle Bailey”, who also just happens to be black. What are we crying about, again? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/93 "2019-07-09T06:05:39Z")
n/m, ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/94 "2019-07-09T11:37:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Are you sure? > > “They were six beautiful children; but the youngest was the prettiest of them all; **her skin was as clear and delicate as a rose-leaf** , and her eyes as blue as the deepest sea; but, like all the others, she had no feet, and her body ended in a fish’s tail.” > > Sounds to me like she’s really, really, really white. Or bright red, depending on the species of rose. Yeah, that’s the line I quoted. If you read carefully, it doesn’t talk about the color of her skin, just the complexion and texture. A black woman could have skin as clear and delicate as a rose-leaf. (That said, I find it a more natural reading that a 19th-century Danish author writing for an audience of Danes who loved descriptive writing would be likely to mention if his protagonist DIDN’T have white skin, and the failure to describe skin color is probably because he didn’t even consider the possibility of non-white skin for her.) But a post almost exactly like your first paragraph is what got her to blow the fuck up at me and call me a racist. Part of her evidence? The Danish mermaid statue is green. Unpack that one. Later, when I (very politely) confronted her, she resorted to telling me that she’s a professional writer, and sure enough, she’s credited as a staff writer on shows like Daredevil. Which makes it worse IMO, as a writer ought to be better at reading. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/95 "2019-07-09T12:27:05Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yeah, that’s the line I quoted. If you read carefully, it doesn’t talk about the color of her skin, just the complexion and texture. A black woman could have skin as clear and delicate as a rose-leaf. (That said, I find it a more natural reading that a 19th-century Danish author writing for an audience of Danes who loved descriptive writing would be likely to mention if his protagonist DIDN’T have white skin, and the failure to describe skin color is probably because he didn’t even consider the possibility of non-white skin for her.) You seem to have skipped my post. That’s not the only reference to skin color in the original story. There are multiple references to the mermaid having white skin in Andersen’s story. (He also refers to the Prince looking like “a marble statue,” and also having blue eyes. The whole cast is pretty Nordic.) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/96 "2019-07-09T12:28:16Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Well, no, she doesn’t die, really. She turns to sea foam and becomes a spirit, given the opportunity to redeem herself and earn an immortal soul. Like being an undead creature, but a good one, I guess. 😃 No, she definitely dies, which is why she turns into sea foam. But there’s a whole thing about how mermaids don’t have souls but because she’s special yadda yadda yadda she gets a soul and gets to be an aerial [sic] spirit for 300 years and then go to heaven. > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > So they wound up casting, as Freeform said, the “incredible, sensational, highly-talented, gorgeous Halle Bailey”, who also just happens to be black. What are we crying about, again? As long as she’s a better singer than Emma Watson (and she is), I’m good. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/97 "2019-07-09T12:37:11Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > And that’s why there aren’t any sea creatures with [black skin](https://assets3.thrillist.com/v1/image/2559383/size/tmg-article_tall.jpg). Or [brown skin](https://secure.i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01661/seal_1661793c.jpg). [Or lamps on their foreheads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglerfish#/media/File:Humpback_anglerfish.png). I’m just saying Disney’s diversity message would ring a lot less hypocritical if the Little Mermaid was half-anglerfish. But nooo, she has to be one of the nice, PC fishes ! ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/98 "2019-07-09T12:40:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > But a post almost exactly like your first paragraph is what got her to blow the fuck up at me and call me a racist. That’s the modern world–anyone who doesn’t agree with you precisely is the worst type of person you can imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/99 "2019-07-09T12:47:36Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > [Or lamps on their foreheads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglerfish#/media/File:Humpback_anglerfish.png). I’m just saying Disney’s diversity message would ring a lot less hypocritical if the Little Mermaid was half-anglerfish. There is already [a source that they can steal from](https://mangapark.net/manga/shinkaigyo-no-anko-san-inuinu/i497332/v01/c001). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651/100 "2019-07-09T12:50:27Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > There are two redhead Disney princesses out of 12 in total. That’s 8-16 x their occurunce in the population. I’d say they’re already \*way \*_ **over** _represented. I think those complaints come mostly from women of a certain age. I’ve found that the Little Mermaid was a very big movie for girls a little younger than me who were the perfect age for the movie. Brave came along a generation later and is probably not even on their radar unless forced to watch over and over by their children. I can’t help but think it’s considered one of the lesser Disney movies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-little-mermaid-is-gasp-black/836651.md?page=6)