# The long, involved pain of getting married **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 14, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459 "2003-03-14T23:00:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/1 "2003-03-14T23:00:16Z")
As a few of you know, I got married in late December- through no fault of my church. I’d been attending my last church ever since I was born. My Mom started going there about two years before she married my Dad, so it’s been our family church for over twenty-five years, and it’s been pretty good to me and my family. At least, until I tried to get married. About a year ago, sometime in March or April, my now-husband, then-fiancé and I began to plan our wedding. We’d been engaged for two years, had been dating for three and a half, and were both church members, over twenty, and employed. We reserved the church for our wedding date, asked our respective bridesmaids and groomsmen, and I started to work on my wedding dress pattern. Some time at the end of May I flew to Iowa to visit my Maid of Honour, and we picked out wedding music and got a pattern and fabric for her dress, and also laughed at a lot of wedding magazines. It was fun. When I got back, Mr. Lissar and I checked with the church to see when we should start do premarital counseling (required by our diocese), and found out that the church **wasn’t** booked. Okay, we renewed the booking, and made sure it was on the calendar. Fine. We also decided to start counseling at the end of August, because we were pretty busy until then. Also fine. We didn’t click with our counselor _at all_. She gave both of us the creepy, “stupid-kids-want-to-be-married” feeling, but she was the only minister with the time, as well as assigned to do the pastoral ministry at our church. So we went, and told her a lot of personal things that we really didn’t feel comfortable telling her, because it was just a hurdle that would be quickly over (4 sessions or so). Then, during the second session (sometime in mid-September) she told us that she “thought we should wait”. Why? Because we hadn’t done a budget, which was admittedly something we needed to do. She also tried to bully both of us into going back to school in January- something neither of us wanted to do, and something we couldn’t afford. So we did the budget and talked to a number of people about general financial advice, and also (finally) phoned the head minister to book a meeting with him, as our counselor was making us uncomfortable, and being a jerk. We couldn’t get through, and didn’t hear from him in weeks, during which we met with our counselor again. Fine, she said, you did the budget, but now I’m concerned that if you get married, Mr. Lissar _may possibly_ decide on a career change at some point in your future, and that may cause you, Lissla Lissar, some pain. “What the hell do you mean?” we politely enquired. “We both know that we’re going to be changing jobs, and that the average person makes several career changes in his or her lifetime. We _know_ this. Are you going to fucking marry us? It’s fucking October!“ Well, we said it without the swearing, but that was the gist. “I think you should wait for a few years. We want marriages our church performs to survive.” Wait? We’d already waited for two years, we knew we wanted to get married, I was still living with my parents because I didn’t want to waste money moving out into my own place, we’re conservative Christians so we **were not** going to move in together before marriage, and we have the full support of family, friends, and each other. Why the hell would we wait? And what the fucking hell does **your** desire for perfect marriage stats have to do with anything? So we finally managed to get through to the head minister, and made an appointment to see him. We also explored other places where we could get married, and contacted two other ministers, one of whom said he’d do it without any reservations or any more counseling. Good, because it was mid-October. We went in to see the head minister, and he said that given our counselor’s concerns, maybe we should spend the week imagining what it would be like to not be married in December. What the bloody, stupid, squid-brained fuck? We were both on edge from work and also from the stress of needing a place to be married, and especially because of their obtuse, fandangling idiocy. We left, resolving that we’d be married elsewhere unless they gave us the go-ahead in next week’s meeting. At that point we should have just pulled out completely. Actually, we should have pulled out as soon as they said, “We want to keep our records clean.” but we’d so much wanted to get married at _our_ church… The next week, we went in and said, “Look, you’ve jerked us around enough. We’re sure we want to marry. We’re sure that God wants us to marry. Are you going to do it or not?. And they (minister and counselor) said, “Okay, we’ll do it, but we have reservations.” So we were married there on December 28th, surrounded by friends and family, and went on a glorious group honeymoon to Ottawa with all the friends who’d flown up to be with us, and the Maid of Honour and Best Man got engaged on January 7th, and are getting married in August, hopefully minus church stupidity. I’m putting this in the Pit because this is the first time I’ve ever sworn here, and also because I am still so fucking angry, both at myself for not pulling out of the situation sooner: before my mother almost had a nervous breakdown, and before we’d gone through all that pain. We haven’t gone back to that church since we were married, and I doubt we will. Oh, yeah, and we pulled out the wedding record thing for the first time since the wedding, and found out that my maiden name is not only spelled wrong, but bears no relation to my last name in the least. And that’s what reminded me of all the histrionics involved in our wedding. Dammit. I _still_ have no idea why they thought career change was a good enough reason to delay marriage. Until when? Until suddenly, in our late thirties, we change careers? The whole thing was stupid. Thanks for listening. ---
**Author:** ![swingchick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@swingchick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swingchick)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/2 "2003-03-14T23:05:30Z")
I’m sorry that you had such a hard time. But I guess you got to be REALLY REALLY sure. 🙂 I wish you a long and happy marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Heloise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e36b37/32.png) [@Heloise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heloise)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/3 "2003-03-15T01:04:47Z")
I’m glad you got through it! 🙂 Congratulations, and may you have a happy marriage until one of you changes careers. (Just kidding!) I wish you both all the best. ---
**Author:** ![Osbie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/cdc98d/32.png) [@Osbie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Osbie)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/4 "2003-03-15T01:24:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissla Lissar \* > Fine, she said, you did the budget, but now I’m concerned that if you get married, Mr. Lissar _may possibly_ decide on a career change at some point in your future, and that may cause you, Lissla Lissar, some pain. “What the **hell** do you mean?” we politely enquired. “We both know that we’re going to be changing jobs, and that the average person makes several career changes in his or her lifetime. We _know_ this. Are you going to **fucking** marry us? It’s **fucking** October!“ Well, we said it without the swearing, but that was the gist. **Lissar** cussin’?! Can it be true? _sprays Windex on eyes, wipes, then rereads post_ I wondered what had happened with your church. I assumed you had gone to a different one. For my part, I think I’ll just live in sin. It sounds much less stressful. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/5 "2003-03-15T01:35:00Z")
See, this is why when **auntie em** and I get married, we will have a [crazy guy](http://www.sun-ink.com/) handle the ceremony. Of course, neither of us belongs to a church, so we kind of have a freedom a lot of people don’t enjoy when choosing an officiant. That said, I’m glad yours worked out well, and that the pressures of your church officials’ ineptness didn’t cause you and Mr. Lissar enough grief so that it negatively affected your personal relationship. I’ve a friend who went through something similar with her wedding, except the “counseling” initially _did_ cause problems with she and her fiancée; they puzzled over what was going wrong until (insert flashing lightbulb here) they recognized that the advice given was crud, the books they were supposed to read were crud, etc… Once they eschewed those problems, the wedding plans (and the ceremony itself) turned out happily. Yay! ---
**Author:** ![Winsling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Winsling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winsling)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/6 "2003-03-15T01:42:29Z")
You realize what you have to do? Divorce, mess up their precious record. Maybe you could repent, and talk the same church into re-marrying you. Then you could divorce again. That would show _them_ what for. Hal Lest anyone think I’m serious, I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/7 "2003-03-15T02:14:31Z")
THank GaWd for ‘livin in sin’, marrying cross-religion and not belonging to a church! (She’s Catholic(lapsed) and I’m Jewish(lapsed)) Sam ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/8 "2003-03-15T19:36:28Z")
Ack- my first husband and I went through a nightmare getting married in his Catholic church (I’m not Catholic). There were classes and counseling, and blah, blah…they asked me if I believe in the tenants of the church and if I would promise to raise our future children Catholic, to which I replied “No”. That started a whole world of BS. Anyway, in the end we got married there, then they made a few thousand dollars off him when he had it annuled a few years later when we divorced. Whatever- a lot of hassle for nothing. The second time my husband and I went to the town justice of the peace and had no hassle whatsoever. We are happily married and will have our 5 year anniversary next week. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/9 "2003-03-15T21:09:42Z")
I didn’t have to go through as much shit, but I did have our Bishop marry us. THe problem is—by then I was pretty much an atheist and he was certainly not religious. To this day I regret caving to my family…I can’t believe I allowed myself to be uncomfortable at my own fucking wedding. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/10 "2003-03-15T21:14:20Z")
You think _you’ve_ got problems getting married… Seriously, though, I sympathize. I’m glad things have worked out for you in the end. I wish you all the best in your marriage. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/11 "2003-03-15T21:30:50Z")
Wow, what pinheads. You should seriously consider writing to them and tell them why you are no longer attending. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/12 "2003-03-15T21:52:25Z")
Never Never Never get married in your own Church. About a year and a half ago we went to the wedding of a good friend of ours. Lutheran church. She’d gone there since she was a small girl. Well, she’d been living with her boyfriend for several years and they had a two-year-old together. So what does Mr. High-and-Mighty do during the ceremony? Stops and gives them a 10 minute (no kidding) LECTURE on “living in sin” and having a child out of wedlock. The entire audience was starting to get pissed. The Bride and Groom were turning red, wisps of smoke coming from their ears. I, who had never even been in that church before, fought back the overwhelming desire to stand up and tell him to shut the fuck up and perform the ceremony. Everyone else I know who has had a church wedding has had all sorts of problems in this same area - Ministers and so forth who decide to screw with them and their “day”. Frankly, I wasn’t interested in listening to their “concerns”. My (twice divorced) wife and I decided to have a private ceremony, presided over by a Wiccan friend of hers, in our own living room. Just the three of us and our two witnesses, my sister and my new step-daughter. Afterwards we went out for pie. Parents and friends complained, but as we told them, “this was for US, not for YOU”. Most of them understood. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/13 "2003-03-15T22:30:09Z")
This was simply a case of: [ul]**Bureaucracy + Murphy’s Laws (#1, #2, #5 and #6) + PMS**[/ul] I know you don’t need this type of remark, but I can’t resist. [ul]:o **[sup]Your marriage will be stronger because of this ordeal[/sup]**[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/14 "2003-03-15T22:49:48Z")
Stupid **kniz**. 😃 I do have some written records about their behaviour, and we’re considering writing them a letter, but haven’t gotten around to it. We’re too busy heaving frying pans at each other. No, no. I’m _kidding_ We’re very happy- although **Winsling’s** suggestion is hilarious. Thanks for the support, everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/15 "2003-03-15T22:51:15Z")
See, I TOLD you to elope, **Lissla**. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/16 "2003-03-15T23:13:41Z")
Geez, **Lissla** , I’m sorry to hear how things turned out. That really bites when you can’t get treated in a reasonable manner by your own minister, at the church you’ve been attending all your life. I can understand them not wanting to perform marriages for any couple that walks through the door and asks. But that hardly applied to you and your husband. First of all, they should know what sort of person you are by now, after watching you grow up in that church. And after having been engaged for as long as you guys were, they should have given you the benefit of assuming you’d thought _some_ things through by then. Sheesh! FWIW, I’m perplexed by the whole career-change thing too. My most recent career change was at age 44. Glad I didn’t wait! :rolleyes: I’m with **Devil’s Grandmother** , except a wicked variation keeps on popping up in my mind: rather than _writing_ the minister to explain why you’ve left his church, you show up at one last service, and explain to him in person, at coffee hour after church. Where some of the folks you’ve been going to church with all your life, until now, can overhear. Glad the wedding and honeymoon went well anyway. And the main thing is, you came in single, and went out married. But I don’t blame you in the least for being pissed at both the head minister and the counselor. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@The\_Tof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tof)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/17 "2003-03-15T23:52:33Z")
My friend got married at his girlfriends church. About halfway through the minister started telling everybody how marriage is a living hell… but since Divorce is a sin and not an option, you’re pretty much stuck with it. So good luck, you’ll need it. It was the wierdest thing I’d ever seen. I told the woman who is marrying me and my g/f. (Who is awesome, she used to be my boss. She is the coolest) “Please do not say that marraige is a living hell, or talk about divorce at all.” ---
**Author:** ![BonoVox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@BonoVox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BonoVox)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/18 "2003-03-15T23:57:11Z")
Vegas Baby!!! The only way to go!!! ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/19 "2003-03-16T00:05:11Z")
Look, **Guin** , I’ve _told_ you, if you elope, you don’t get presents, and I got a Cuisinart food processor, as well as a whole crapload of other great stuff. Not that I’m greedy and materialistic or anything. ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459/20 "2003-03-16T00:38:44Z")
At my friend’s wedding rehearsal, the minister suddenly announced that he couldn’t marry them because the vows they had written did not include a promise that the bride would obey the groom. After hours of frantic discussions, the minister backed down, but he had managed to put them through a few hours of misery of the eve of their wedding. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-long-involved-pain-of-getting-married/161459.md?page=2)