# The "Longest Election Campaign in Modern Canada" Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 2, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807 "2015-08-02T15:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/821 "2015-10-21T23:10:04Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > (How is importing milk into Canada, with a very healthy dairy industry, from New Zealand, anything but an environmental crime of the very highest order? How could anyone, anywhere think that makes any sense? ) Considering the price we pay for dairy compared to the rest of the world, it’s well worth it. My only regret there with respect to the TPP is that the government did as good a job as they did at maintaining supply management. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/822 "2015-10-21T23:15:54Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Considering the price we pay for dairy compared to the rest of the world, it’s well worth it. My only regret there with respect to the TPP is that the government did as good a job as they did at maintaining supply management. I actually don’t know the details of the TPP, particularly what Canada gained or gave up. I was under the impression that the details had not been released, despite a Conservative Party promise to do so before the election. Did you get an advance copy? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/823 "2015-10-21T23:37:15Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I actually don’t know the details of the TPP, particularly what Canada gained or gave up. I was under the impression that the details had not been released, despite a Conservative Party promise to do so before the election. > > Did you get an advance copy? In terms of supply management the government released some details when the agreement was announced. The TPP only allows access to a tiny percentage of our supply managed industries – something on the order of 2-4%. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/824 "2015-10-21T23:40:30Z")
And provides a sum of money to the industry for a period of time. Something like 4 billion over 5 years ---
**Author:** ![yawuntz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a5b964/32.png) [@yawuntz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yawuntz)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/825 "2015-10-22T00:04:52Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You may be remembering the following: > > Pierre Trudeau was criticized for making a raft of appointments (including senators) before he left as leader, and before Turner took over. Turner himself was criticized for not cancelling these appointments, as was his right, after he officially became PM… And Turner sank like a stone, helped along by [The Jaw That walks Like a Man](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j64lzExjWSc) at 0.34 ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/826 "2015-10-22T00:10:31Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Sure, all parties have done this to an extent in the past. But the Harper Government was absolutely off the charts. Learned everything from “Canada’s Natural Governing Party”, they did. Sad that they used what they learned, though. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > But this right wing party won a majority of the seats in Parliament in 2011 with less than 40% of the vote. If that were possible in the US, the Republicans could be even more right wing than they are, and could take over the House, the Senate, and the presidency. Better to have one center/left party as a bulwark against this, if you ask me. (ETA: “Centre/left”, that is.) So, you upset that the Liberals formed a majority with less than [40% of the vote](http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/results-2015/) this time? The C’s in 2011 actually had a 0.1% higher percentage of the vote. Whereas the L’s this time ended up with a higher percentage of seats (0.1%) even with their lower percentage of the vote! So, where’s the rage now?!😛 ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/827 "2015-10-22T01:24:10Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > It’s actually gone rather ass backwards this year. The Liberals use to be a slightly left of center party, with the New Democrats (NDP) being the very left party. But in this campaign, the NDP actually ran on a platform of fiscal restraint, while the Liberals moved left with a plan that calls for deficit financing for the next three years, to fund infrastructure stimulus spending. > > So at this point, I don’t think anyone really knows who is what anymore! I agree, at least 60 per cent of voters wanted Harper out, Trudeau being in third place had to be a clear alternative so went left. I think Canadians are willing to go with a risk taker because interest rates are low, now is the time to invest in the country, and Trudeau was open about running a deficit to do it. When Harper offered to keep the budget balanced and there wasn’t a whole heck of a lot different in the NDP playbook, the choices were clear. The NDP still freaked by the NDP provincial Bob Rae govt of the 90’s that made govt employees take Rae days to pay for overspending and crazy tax hikes, they wanted to appear to be fiscally responsible. They unfortunately shit the bed with their platform. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/828 "2015-10-22T02:09:50Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > (How is importing milk into Canada, with a very healthy dairy industry, from New Zealand, anything but an environmental crime of the very highest order? How could anyone, anywhere think that makes any sense? ) If Canada’s dairy industry is healthy, why shouldn’t we import milk from New Zealand? Why is it bad to do that? Is there something about New Zealanders I should dislike? Is there some pressing reason Canadians should have to pay artificially high prices for milk? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/829 "2015-10-22T02:29:09Z")
It defauls the oceans, burns hoardes of fossil fuels, bringing a product that should be consumed fresh, from THE furthest spot on earth. Into a country which has always produced it’s own supply and supports a healthy dairy farming and processing industry /economy. When concerns were raised to Mr Harper, he promised billions over a decade to help them. Which means it will utterly devestate a large, healthy part of our economy, and segment of our country. How is this NOT the stupidest idea EVER?? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/830 "2015-10-22T02:40:37Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > How is this NOT the stupidest idea EVER?? How do New Zealand farmers manage to produce milk so efficiently that they are competitive even after sending milk from the furthest spot in the world? And why should inefficiency, even if done by fellow Canadians, be rewarded with continued support? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/831 "2015-10-22T02:58:42Z")
There is NO need to ship milk across an entire ocean. It is completely and utterly unnecessary. Except for the downside of burning tons of fossil fuels and bespoiling the oceans. Oh, and devastating a large, well functioning, segment of our economy. How is it not considered an environmental crime? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/832 "2015-10-22T03:11:27Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > There is NO need to ship milk across an entire ocean. It is completely and utterly unnecessary. Except for the downside of burning tons of fossil fuels and bespoiling the oceans. Oh, and devastating a large, well functioning, segment of our economy. > > How is it not considered an environmental crime? IF they can sell their milk less expensively than local producers even after shipping it from New Zealand, then what makes you think that it is worse for the environment to do so? What is making local producers so inefficient? Are these inefficiencies causing higher emissions and abuse of the environment? Because if both groups were equally efficient, then the cost of shipping across the world would make outside products noncompetitive. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/833 "2015-10-22T04:17:46Z")
Local producers aren’t particularly inefficient. It’s just that the market price of dairy products in Canada is artificially high because the supply of milk is tightly regulated. As a producer, you can’t sell milk to a processor without a production quota, and those quotas are restricted to a level which constricts the supply of milk thereby raising prices. I’ve always found it somewhat amusing that Harper went after the Wheat Board as anti-free market with such energy when it was simply a marketing co-op, and all the while the dairy market is massively distorted by supply management and not a peep. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/834 "2015-10-22T04:22:31Z")
Well, here in America, where we are rude and corrupt, it would be about money, especially money that might find a good home in a civic minded organization. Got no idea how you guys do things. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/835 "2015-10-22T04:26:35Z")
Oh, there’s no particular mystery. The dairy lobby is influential in Quebec where seats are up for grabs, while prairie grain farmers all vote Conservative regardless. Just the discrepancy is amusing is all. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/836 "2015-10-22T18:04:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Of all the Liberal promises, this will be the first one they break, though they’ll be more clever about it than the Conservative government would have been. > > I just can imagine the caucus discussion: > > JUSTIN TRUDEAU: Alright, settle down. Congratulations on forming our new majority government! > > 184 OTHER LIBERAL MPS: Woo! Woo! Yeah! Tru-deau! Tru-deau! Tru-deau! > > JUSTIN TRUDEAU: Ha ha, okay, settle down… alright, first order of business; I wanted to change the way we elect MPs so that a lot of you wouldn’t have a seat in the Commons and we wouldn’t have a majority government. > > CRICKETS: Chirp, chirp. Generally I have little faith in the Libs to stay true to any promises, but its not like this issue was a surprise to ‘the hoard’ as they did campaign on it. Also if Justin wants a grand ole legacy akin to his pa (CCoRaF) or Obama (Health Care), he needs to think towards the greater needs of the country over petty politics. Our democracy lacks serious legitimacy due to the outdated FPTP system. If the Grits are too scared of the ‘real change’ that an accurate proportional representation system brings (I favour MMP) then the adoption of a wishy-washy half-measure like the AV/STV would still be an improvement. However Justin might not be the great leader/proponent of change that he makes himself out to be. He has the means/mandate, only time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/837 "2015-10-22T20:25:32Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > It defauls the oceans, burns hoardes of fossil fuels, bringing a product that should be consumed fresh, from THE furthest spot on earth. Into a country which has always produced it’s own supply and supports a healthy dairy farming and processing industry /economy. If our dairy industry is so healthy, please tell me why it is they need to be protected from the scary New Zealanders. How could New Zealand even hope to compete with a healthy farming and processing industry? > [@](#): > > How is this NOT the stupidest idea EVER?? Let me be as honest as I can; you have no idea what you’re talking about. Canadian dairy farmers are protected solely because they pull political weight, especially in Quebec. The purpose of supply management is to transfer money from ordinary Canadians to a small group of well off dairy farmers who own the quotas; it is a scheme whereby the dairy industry rips you off and politicians buy votes. End of story. Supply management hurts poor people the most and helps people who don’t need it; it’s a regressive, elitist rent-seeking vote scheme and Canadians would be better off completely eliminating it tomorrow. Any argument you care to put forward can be torn to ridiculous little pieces with two, maybe three minutes’ worth of coherent thought. There is no rational reason to protect the dairy industry from foreign competition; it is stupid and it hurts most Canadians, and the ones it hurts most are people struggling to get by. If our dairy farmers are good at what they do, New Zealand could never sell a drop of milk in Canada. If they can, it’s because our dairy farmers are incompetent or inefficient and they deserve to lose business. Either way, enriching people who are doing just fine as it is by forcing some single mother to pay more for her groceries (or the even dumber Tory idea, whereby everyone will be taxed to just give free money to dairy farmers) is a cynical and corrupt as crony capitalism gets. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/838 "2015-10-22T20:49:07Z")
Isn’t there something to be said for a country producing its own food and not relying on the whims of foreign suppliers? Shipping milk half way around the world sounds so preposterous to me that I assumed the agreement meant that New Zealand dairies could buy Canadian dairy farms or start their own in Canada. Is that not the case? ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/839 "2015-10-22T21:45:05Z")
Shipping milk across the Pacific _is_ preposterous, and a huge waste of resources. It would only be profitable – and competitive against domestic supplies in Canada – if those Canadian suppliers were extremely overpriced. My mother lives in Sault Ste Marie, and routinely pays the bridge toll to go buy dairy products in Michigan, where she easily sees discounts of 50% or better compared to Ontario prices. Northern Michigan isn’t geographically or agriculturally very different from northern Ontario, but their butter is typically 60% cheaper. Like the cost of shipping across the ocean, it’s foolish to pay the bridge toll on top of the price of a litre of milk. But it’s still cheaper than Canadian milk. Either there’s something special about Canadian milk, or our industry is extremely cost-inefficient. We’ve structured the market in a way that subsidizes it with high prices to the consumer; the proposed TPP agreement appears to come with new taxpayer subsidies too. I’m sympathetic to concerns about food security, but it’s looking less and less like our system does anything very helpful about that. I do think it’s ridiculous to bring commodities across the ocean by diesel power, but milk wouldn’t be the only thing we import that way. If New Zealand can make so much cheap dairy that it can supply itself _and_ a large export market, why can’t Canada? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/840 "2015-10-22T22:46:03Z")
> [@wolfstu](#): > > Northern Michigan isn’t geographically or agriculturally very different from northern Ontario, but their butter is typically 60% cheaper. > > Like the cost of shipping across the ocean, it’s foolish to pay the bridge toll on top of the price of a litre of milk. But it’s still cheaper than Canadian milk. Either there’s something special about Canadian milk, or our industry is extremely cost-inefficient. And/or the Americans are subsidizing their milk. [For example, here are some numbers for Michigan.](http://farm.ewg.org/progdetail.php?fips=26000&progcode=dairy) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807.md?page=43)