# The "Longest Election Campaign in Modern Canada" Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 2, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807 "2015-08-02T15:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/841 "2015-10-22T22:50:34Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > Isn’t there something to be said for a country producing its own food and not relying on the whims of foreign suppliers? > > Shipping milk half way around the world sounds so preposterous to me that I assumed the agreement meant that New Zealand dairies could buy Canadian dairy farms or start their own in Canada. Is that not the case? They can’t start their own dairies in Canada without buying quota, and therefore any dairies they start will not increase the overall milk output of the Canadian dairy industry. That’s what supply management means. That’s why Canadian milk costs twice as much - because there’s not nearly as much available as people would like to buy. I disagree with Rick that supply management should be completely eliminated tomorrow, but only because that would be grossly unfair to people who’ve just entered the dairy industry and spent a fortune on quota only to have it turn out to be money down the drain. Supply management needs to be either phased out over a number of years, or the government needs to instituted some sort of quota buyout. Moot point, because the dairy lobby seems to have too much political clout for anything like that to even be considered. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/842 "2015-10-22T23:00:01Z")
Sounds like Uber versus the taxi industry. Only so many taxi plates to go around and so they used to be sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Needless to say the price is dropping. Why the hell should the government be regulating taxi prices or milk prices? What a ridiculous concept. The times they are a changin’. Did the government protect the record industry as sales shifted? Did the government protect video stores as people moved to on-line streaming? What about newspapers? What about the electronics manufacturing industry? No, I think it’s high time we throw this open to global trade and let the cards fall where they may. ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/843 "2015-10-22T23:36:49Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > And/or the Americans are subsidizing their milk. [For example, here are some numbers for Michigan.](http://farm.ewg.org/progdetail.php?fips=26000&progcode=dairy) An excellent point. This is the kind of industry that gets interventions like this in a lot of places – not just Canada. And the history, even on the Canadian side, is kind of complicated. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/844 "2015-10-22T23:54:56Z")
If the milk marketing board needs revision, then revise it. Become to politicized? Close it down and start over. I’m not unaware of how the checks and balances Canadians wanted, put in place, and pay for with their tax dollars, have, over time be twisted into something that often works against the interests of Canadians. It’s not just the Dairy board. Look at the Brewers Retail, suddenly we’re getting beer in variety stores. Did anyone need this? Was anyone screaming for more access to beer? Petitions, marches, an election issue? No, but beer manufacturers sure do. And the board that we pay for, and is supposed to be watching out for our interests, over time has been hijacked by manufacturers, when various governments cut funding, lobbyists stepped in. A government that can’t inspect nursing homes is assuring us there will be inspections etc. Bullshit, I say. I know it’s provincial not federal but it’s, at its heart, it’s the same issue everywhere you look. Personally I don’t think we should be footing the bill for organizations that have jumped the shark and become tools of the industry they were meant to regulate. The Dairy marketing board is a perfect example. If they aren’t working in our interests, get rid of them. Trying to fix the board, opening up completion is the solution, to me. Not shipping milk from freaking New Zealand! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/845 "2015-10-23T00:23:00Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > It’s not just the Dairy board. Look at the Brewers Retail, suddenly we’re getting beer in variety stores. Did anyone need this? Was anyone screaming for more access to beer? I’d like to pay less for beer. Why do two huge breweries get a legal monopoly on selling beer? How does it help people to do that? Beer manufacturers don’t want the Beer Store to go away - it’s the huge breweries that own it and use it to keep prices artificially high. Did you think it was a government operation? Holy moly. [QUOTE=Esox Lucius] Isn’t there something to be said for a country producing its own food and not relying on the whims of foreign suppliers? [/QUOTE] We’re not talking about making it illegal to milk cows in Canada. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/846 "2015-10-23T00:23:46Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Canadian dairy farmers are protected solely because they pull political weight, especially in Quebec. The purpose of supply management is to transfer money from ordinary Canadians to a small group of well off dairy farmers who own the quotas; it is a scheme whereby the dairy industry rips you off and politicians buy votes. > [snip] > There is no rational reason to protect the dairy industry from foreign competition; it is stupid and it hurts most Canadians, and the ones it hurts most are people struggling to get by. If our dairy farmers are good at what they do, New Zealand could never sell a drop of milk in Canada. If they can, it’s because our dairy farmers are incompetent or inefficient and they deserve to lose business. Either way, enriching people who are doing just fine as it is by forcing some single mother to pay more for her groceries (or the even dumber Tory idea, whereby everyone will be taxed to just give free money to dairy farmers) is a cynical and corrupt as crony capitalism gets. That’s not a defence of TPP. That’s an argument for internal competition and reform. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/847 "2015-10-23T02:14:58Z")
Internal competition and external competition are just as good as one another. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/848 "2015-10-23T02:24:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Internal competition and external competition are just as good as one another. Maybe when the one world government comes. In the mean time people will vote for politicians that keep their jobs over saving a dollar on their butter. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/849 "2015-10-23T02:32:40Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Maybe when the one world government comes. In the mean time people will vote for politicians that keep their jobs over saving a dollar on their butter. And that’s a shame. Free trade results in better outcomes than protectionism. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/850 "2015-10-23T02:35:24Z")
If they’re both just as good, then let’s favour the one that’s already in existence, supporting families and our economy, that way we can save all that fossil fuel and wear and tear on the world’s oceans. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/851 "2015-10-23T02:36:45Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > If they’re both just as good, then let’s favour the one that’s already in existence, supporting families and our economy, that way we can save all that fossil fuel and wear and tear on the world’s oceans. How do we decide whether it’s just as good or not? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/852 "2015-10-23T02:40:12Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > And that’s a shame. Free trade results in better outcomes than protectionism. Ridiculous. Sometimes protectionist policies can help get a native industry off the ground or weather a storm. Having an industry functioning at home isn’t useless because they can ship it in from. Zambia for cheaper. Don’t be a free market fundamentalist. It’s as stupid as every other fundamentalism. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/853 "2015-10-23T02:41:58Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > If they’re both just as good, then let’s favour the one that’s already in existence, supporting families and our economy, that way we can save all that fossil fuel and wear and tear on the world’s oceans. Yeah, when I want a buggy whip, I want one made locally, gosh darn-it! ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/854 "2015-10-23T02:46:09Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Yeah, when I want a buggy whip, I want one made locally, gosh darn-it! Milk is hardly in the dustbin of history. Btw, have you come up with your oversight plan for electing party leaders? ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/855 "2015-10-23T13:49:34Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > We’re not talking about making it illegal to milk cows in Canada. What a coincidence, neither was I. I assume the cost of producing milk in Canada is naturally higher due to our climate, for one thing. Small population in a large area must mean higher transportation costs in getting it to market. Does that mean we should just give up providing our own milk? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/856 "2015-10-23T13:57:09Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Was anyone screaming for more access to beer? Petitions, marches, an election issue? It wasn’t an election issue, but yes, in fact, there were petitions for opening up beer sales in Ontario. They were run by a lot of convenience store operators, at least here in Ottawa, who would love to be able to sell beer like the same stores do in Quebec. Of course, you’ll note, the new plan to expand beer sales to certain grocery stores still screws these guys… ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/857 "2015-10-23T14:32:58Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Generally I have little faith in the Libs to stay true to any promises, but its not like this issue was a surprise to ‘the hoard’ as they did campaign on it. I just found a wonderful website clearly outlining all of Trudeau’s election promises and tracking his adherence to them (with open comment sections on each promise). [https://www.trudeaumetre.ca/](https://www.trudeaumetre.ca/) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/858 "2015-10-23T14:38:51Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > If they’re both just as good, then let’s favour the one that’s already in existence, supporting families and our economy Dairy supply management does not support 99% of Canadian families and isn’t helping the economy. [QUOTE=Esox Lucius] I assume the cost of producing milk in Canada is naturally higher due to our climate, for one thing. Small population in a large area must mean higher transportation costs in getting it to market. Does that mean we should just give up providing our own milk? [/QUOTE] How on earth would it be more expensive to do this in Canada than to ship it from overseas? What is our dairy industry so worried about? The answer is of ocurse that they are not; they have prevailed upon the government to get money for free by screwing the rest of Canada. Look up “Rent-seeking.” If Canadians can produce milk and ship it to market efficiently, let them. If not, don’t prop them up by taking money away from people just to buy votes. We don’t need supply management in how we buy and sell any number of food products. Why do we need it with milk? It’s been created to buy votes. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/859 "2015-10-23T14:47:54Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > If they’re both just as good, then let’s favour the one that’s already in existence, supporting families and our economy Dairy supply management does not support 99% of Canadian families and isn’t helping the economy. [QUOTE=Esox Lucius] I assume the cost of producing milk in Canada is naturally higher due to our climate, for one thing. Small population in a large area must mean higher transportation costs in getting it to market. Does that mean we should just give up providing our own milk? [/QUOTE] How on earth would it be more expensive to do this in Canada than to ship it from overseas? What is our dairy industry so worried about? The answer is of ocurse that they are not; they have prevailed upon the government to get money for free by screwing the rest of Canada. Look up “Rent-seeking.” If Canadians can produce milk and ship it to market efficiently, let them. If not, don’t prop them up by taking money away from people just to buy votes. We don’t need supply management in how we buy and sell any number of food products. Why do we need it with milk? It’s been created to buy votes. Supply management is EXACTLY equivalent to the government steppjng in to, say, the laundry detergent industry, cutting off all imports of laundry detergent and then working with the detergent industry to set quotas, prevent competitors from entering the industry without buying quote from existing manufacturers, and even prohibiting, to a large extent, moving laundry detergent from province to province. Then the cost of a big jug of laundry detergent would go from $12 to $20, and everyone in Canada would be paying a small cadre of laundry detergent makers, and when someone suggested that it appeared to be a really stupid system, someone complains about how we shouldn’t import Tide from New Zealand. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/860 "2015-10-23T16:34:11Z")
Being able to sustain ourselves in laundry detergent is hardly on the same level as food production, but nevertheless, I’m getting your point. After looking it up, I see that New Zealand’s agriculture economy is booming after the government cut subsidies. Its farms are so efficient that that they produce far more than the country needs, and are able to export that excess because it’s cheaper than that of other countries. So my question now is, what happens when all countries cut subsidies? New Zealand won’t have the advantage of having the cheapest products and its exports will, I assume, decline. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807.md?page=44)