# The "Longest Election Campaign in Modern Canada" Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 2, 2015, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807 "2015-08-02T15:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/161 "2015-09-04T04:34:21Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > As much as we might like it to be that Harper personally held the kid’s head underwater while cackling that his kind would never soil our shores, it doesn’t even rise to the level of a bureaucratic screwup. The paperwork was incomplete and was sent back as such. The local MP got involved, made a high level contact and was probably told once these folks get their paperwork in order they’d be in the queue. No malice was involved. If your paperwork isn’t in order it will be rejected. That’s how it is supposed to work. > > Now on the other hand, if we need some deaths to lay directly at the feet of Mr. Harper, how about this Canadian Forces bombing that might have killed 27 civilians but we’re not sure because no one wants to look too closely: > > [Up to 27 Iraqi civilians may have been killed in Canadian airstrike, Pentagon document reveals | CBC News](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/up-to-27-iraqi-civilians-may-have-been-killed-in-canadian-airstrike-pentagon-document-reveals-1.3213917) How in the fuck is this in any way related to the fucking prime fucking minister? Jesus Christ. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/162 "2015-09-04T04:36:01Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > How in the fuck is this in any way related to the fucking prime fucking minister? > > Jesus Christ. He is the one who ultimately decided we should be dropping bombs over there is he not? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/163 "2015-09-04T04:45:23Z")
Oh, so now we’ve moved the goal posts and are suddenly talking about military action against ISIS instead of administrative paperwork regarding refugee applicants. I see. So, yes. Military action against ISIS is necessary and warranted, and you would be foolish to think otherwise. ISIS is the root of the issue and we need to continue to attack the root. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/164 "2015-09-04T05:59:32Z")
Technically, the Syrian civil war is bigger than ISIS, but I see your point. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/165 "2015-09-04T06:42:50Z")
Technically, ISIS and Syrian refugees aren’t really a Canadian problem. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/166 "2015-09-04T07:12:34Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Oh, so now we’ve moved the goal posts and are suddenly talking about military action against ISIS instead of administrative paperwork regarding refugee applicants. I see. > > So, yes. Military action against ISIS is necessary and warranted, and you would be foolish to think otherwise. ISIS is the root of the issue and we need to continue to attack the root. No goalposts moving here. I feel you may have misunderstood the point I was trying to make. What I was saying is that the outrage against Harper over the Syrian boy who died is misplaced. Harper can be criticized from many angles but this is not one of them. As tragic as the situation is, the fault ultimately lies with whomever filled out that paperwork (and not the bureaucrats who received it). If the aunt had been told that her nephew’s life depended on her filling out those forms correctly, she might have done so in the first place and we’d still be talking about Duffy. FWIW, the aunt doesn’t even blame the government. And allow me to repeat that the paperwork was handled correctly. The government won’t and shouldn’t accept incomplete forms, especially for refugees from troubled parts of the world. The airstrike that may or may not have killed 27 civilians is a bigger story in my opinion. These are deaths caused directly by a conscious decision Harper made. But the Syrian boy makes a better headline. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/167 "2015-09-04T07:23:37Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > No goalposts moving here. I feel you may have misunderstood the point I was trying to make. > > What I was saying is that the outrage against Harper over the Syrian boy who died is misplaced. Harper can be criticized from many angles but this is not one of them. As tragic as the situation is, the fault ultimately lies with whomever filled out that paperwork (and not the bureaucrats who received it). If the aunt had been told that her nephew’s life depended on her filling out those forms correctly, she might have done so in the first place and we’d still be talking about Duffy. FWIW, the aunt doesn’t even blame the government. And allow me to repeat that the paperwork was handled correctly. The government won’t and shouldn’t accept incomplete forms, especially for refugees from troubled parts of the world. > > The airstrike that may or may not have killed 27 civilians is a bigger story in my opinion. These are deaths caused directly by a conscious decision Harper made. But the Syrian boy makes a better headline. The Prime Minister did not call for the air strike. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/168 "2015-09-04T07:49:58Z")
Don’t be obtuse. He sent our military into a very complicated foreign civil war. I doubt it’s the first or the last civilian deaths that decision will bring. You probably think it’s worth it but don’t deny the costs. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/169 "2015-09-04T08:12:46Z")
Obtuse? I fully support our military action against ISIS (ISIL). But the Prime Minister isn’t coordinating the tactical daily missions. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/170 "2015-09-04T13:22:49Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Obtuse? > > I fully support our military action against ISIS (ISIL). But the Prime Minister isn’t coordinating the tactical daily missions. Of course he isn’t. But civilian casualties are the completely foreseeable (inevitable, even) outcome of the decision Harper made to send the CF-18’s into that situation. If you want to say that participating in those airstrikes is a good decision, you have to think that civilian casualties are a price worth paying for whatever military benefit the airstrikes bring. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/171 "2015-09-04T13:38:57Z")
> [@bb49](#): > > What is the rush? Don’t you think that if we want to slow, or preferably stop this refugee crisis, then maybe go to the source of it? And the source, in case you aren’t aware, is ISIS. They are the ones driving this crisis. Stop ISIS and you stop the refugee crisis. > > In the meantime, do you want a bunch of unknowns, 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 or more flooding our shores? Regardless of who is sitting in Ottawa, government workers only move so fast. Or didn’t you know that? > How do we get these people here? How do we verify exactly who they are? Now that is very important, at least in my eyes. What do we do with them when they arrive? Put them in those empty camp trailers in the oil fields? > > And since a very large number of these refugees are able bodied men, that ran from their country rather then stay and fight ISIS, do we really want those kind of people? > If a few thousand of those men had stayed and fought, that just might have made a difference. > > So do you have any answers? \*\*This is Racist bullshit. WTF, these people are fleeing ISIS for shits sake they will be the most ardent supporters of getting rid of that terror group. In 1975 Joe Clark brought in 69,000 random refugees from Vietnam. You think they are all communists?Those able bodied “gooks” who settled in this country, raised children to be productive citizens, doctors lawyers, the type of people who GROW the Economy. This is a crisis of epic porportions. Canada hasn’t even lived up to it’s lowest promise of bringing in 10,000 LAST YEAR. \*\* Adiran Arsennault has a fantastic report. Watch it and stop with the racism. > **[Canada isn't taking refugees 'on an urgent basis,' critics say | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/syria-refugees-canada-immigration-alan-kurdi-1.3214850)** > > The picture of a Syrian boy whose body washed up on a Turkish beach has heightened attention to Canada's own contribution to accepting refugees from that war-torn area and other troubled regions. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/172 "2015-09-04T13:43:34Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I know you’re being facetious but the fact remains that they can’t just fucking walk or even take a train to Canada. Flying in 20,000 random people, vetting them to some degree and then finding a place for them to stay once they get here is a bit of a job. Not to mention financing and providing for them once they’re in the country. It has been done. Very successfully with both Trudeau (the father) and Joe Clark’s administrations. Harper has NO excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/173 "2015-09-04T13:46:49Z")
> [@](#): > > As much as we might like it to be that Harper personally held the kid’s head underwater while cackling that his kind would never soil our shores, it doesn’t even rise to the level of a bureaucratic screwup. The paperwork was incomplete and was sent back as such. The local MP got involved, made a high level contact and was probably told once these folks get their paperwork in order they’d be in the queue. No malice was involved. If your paperwork isn’t in order it will be rejected. That’s how it is supposed to work. Then why the fuck didn’t the government spend its own allotment of money on Refugees? And why did the Harper government deem it necessary to discriminate on the basis of religion? And why are there so few Syrians? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/174 "2015-09-04T16:46:20Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Why? > > Canada is one of, if not the top, country in the world for taking in immigrants on a per capita basis. > > This is tragic, but it certainly has nothing to do with Canada or our immigration policies. In the past several years, Canada has done an abysmal job with taking on refugees. Please do not pull the stunt of confusing immigrants with refugees. We are discussing the Syrian refugee crisis now. Please do us the favour of remaining intellectually honest. Both Joe Clark and PET handled the Vietnamese refugee crisis without politicizing it. They got government people on the ground, cut red tape and worked with NGO’s to bring in 60,000 people in a relatively short space of time. And yes, there were those who moaned and cried about how it would ruin our economy. And how we were bringing in filthy communists. Right now, the Harper Government is doing a terrible, TERRIBLE job. They are promising a lot. But what have the results been? Hard to tell, because (as usual), they are not releasing information about how many Syrian refugees have actually been helped. (They told the CBC to file a freedom of information request to get that info) And who do the Harper Government blame? Their own bureaucrats. The ones who are following the orders of the Harper Government. Both Joe Clark and PET were able to cut through red tape when needed. What is wrong with Harper? I’ll tell you one theory for what is wrong with Harper, and why VERY LITTLE is being done for these refugees; They are mostly Muslim. And Harper’s Base does not like Mulsims. Harper has to tread a very fine line here - if he does too much, he will be offending his base. And he simply cant’ afford to do that. So he promises much, and delivers little. And yes, because of that, more people will die. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/175 "2015-09-04T17:53:47Z")
Well, now you can be (fake) arrested if you wear a t-shirt to a Harper rally that he does not like: Sean Devlin was wearing a home-made T-shirt that said “Aylan Should Be Here” – a reference to Alan Kurdi. > [@](#): > > "Devlin said he was waiting in the warehouse venue for Mr. Harper’s appearance when a party photographer asked him to stand on stage behind Mr. Harper’s podium because “ they needed younger faces” as a backdrop for the Conservative leader. > > After about 20-minutes effort to arrange the group, Mr. Devlin said some of the security detail noticed the writing on his shirt and he was detained, arrested by Mr. Harper’s security detail for obstruction of justice and removed from the venue. Mr. Devlin said" Wait, what? “arrested” by private security? I’m sure they could have thrown him out, but arrested him? For “obstruction of justice”? Were they high? But wait, it gets worse: > [@](#): > > Devlin said an RCMP officer from Surrey took him into custody and he was transported to the Surrey RCMP detachment where he was held for several hours before being released. > > “They said there were no charges at this point, but charges could be laid at any time in the next six months.” The RCMP had no business whatsoever trying to intimidate him like this. Their job at Harper events is to protect the PM. Period. Not intimidate any protestor who slips in with a t-shirt that might make Harper uncomfortable. This campaign is really showing Harper’s true colours; Permit no dissent, crack down on protesters using private security, tell your candidates to go into hiding, attack the media… ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/176 "2015-09-04T18:01:54Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > In the past several years, Canada has done an abysmal job with taking on refugees. Please do not pull the stunt of confusing immigrants with refugees. We are discussing the Syrian refugee crisis now. Please do us the favour of remaining intellectually honest. > > Both Joe Clark and PET handled the Vietnamese refugee crisis without politicizing it. They got government people on the ground, cut red tape and worked with NGO’s to bring in 60,000 people in a relatively short space of time. And yes, there were those who moaned and cried about how it would ruin our economy. And how we were bringing in filthy communists. > > Right now, the Harper Government is doing a terrible, TERRIBLE job. They are promising a lot. But what have the results been? Hard to tell, because (as usual), they are not releasing information about how many Syrian refugees have actually been helped. (They told the CBC to file a freedom of information request to get that info) > > And who do the Harper Government blame? Their own bureaucrats. The ones who are following the orders of the Harper Government. Both Joe Clark and PET were able to cut through red tape when needed. What is wrong with Harper? > > I’ll tell you one theory for what is wrong with Harper, and why VERY LITTLE is being done for these refugees; > They are mostly Muslim. And Harper’s Base does not like Mulsims. Harper has to tread a very fine line here - if he does too much, he will be offending his base. And he simply cant’ afford to do that. So he promises much, and delivers little. And yes, because of that, more people will die. Actually the final total of Indochinese refugees admitted was over 200,000, most during the initial couple of years of the crisis. We can do it if the political will is there. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/177 "2015-09-04T18:10:07Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > In the past several years, Canada has done an abysmal job with taking on refugees. Please do not pull the stunt of confusing immigrants with refugees. We are discussing the Syrian refugee crisis now. Please do us the favour of remaining intellectually honest. > > Both Joe Clark and PET handled the Vietnamese refugee crisis without politicizing it. They got government people on the ground, cut red tape and worked with NGO’s to bring in 60,000 people in a relatively short space of time. And yes, there were those who moaned and cried about how it would ruin our economy. And how we were bringing in filthy communists. > > Right now, the Harper Government is doing a terrible, TERRIBLE job. They are promising a lot. But what have the results been? Hard to tell, because (as usual), they are not releasing information about how many Syrian refugees have actually been helped. (They told the CBC to file a freedom of information request to get that info) > > And who do the Harper Government blame? Their own bureaucrats. The ones who are following the orders of the Harper Government. Both Joe Clark and PET were able to cut through red tape when needed. What is wrong with Harper? > > I’ll tell you one theory for what is wrong with Harper, and why VERY LITTLE is being done for these refugees; > They are mostly Muslim. And Harper’s Base does not like Mulsims. Harper has to tread a very fine line here - if he does too much, he will be offending his base. And he simply cant’ afford to do that. So he promises much, and delivers little. And yes, because of that, more people will die. I agree with this post entirely, and I will say it’s not only his base that he doesn’t want to offend. Harper has a problem with Muslims. This is an article from last December > **[Government faces questions about anti-Muslim bias over Syrian refugees](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/government-faces-questions-about-anti-muslim-bias-over-syrian-refugees)** > > The Conservative government is facing renewed questions about an alleged anti-Muslim bias following revelations it wants to cherry-pick which Syrian refugees will b… ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/178 "2015-09-04T18:26:21Z")
Maclean’s has a great article on how Canada isn’t doing enough. For Shame. > **[Why Canada should take in 20 times more refugees](https://macleans.ca/news/canada/why-canada-should-take-in-20-times-more-refugees/)** > > In Canadian politics, "thinking big" often means thinking a little less small. Why the image of a drowned Syrian boy must shock this country into action ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/179 "2015-09-04T18:48:17Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Maclean’s has a great article on how Canada isn’t doing enough. For Shame. > [http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/why-canada-should-take-in-20-times-more-refugees/](http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/why-canada-should-take-in-20-times-more-refugees/) I don’t think Canadians would want 200,000 refugees per year. That’s kind of crazy. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807/180 "2015-09-04T18:50:33Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ll tell you one theory for what is wrong with Harper, and why VERY LITTLE is being done for these refugees; > They are mostly Muslim. And Harper’s Base does not like Mulsims. Well, to be honest, that doesn’t make any sense. Bear in mind the Harper government already promised to bring in more Syrian refugees. Politically speaking what you’re saying is therefore the complete reverse of what he should have done if he was appealing to a racist base. If it was his intent to play to a “Mulsim” hating base, the promise would not have been made in the first place, since that political battle would have been instantly lost the moment the promise was made. Whether Canada took in 10,000, 1,000 or 3 Syrian refugees after that point wouldn’t make any difference to the “base.” Once he made the promise, the memory of every genuine Islamophobe in Canada would have been that _that absolutely did happen_. That’s how bigots’ memories work. For that matter, if Harper is engineering who-gets-into-Canada policy according to racism, I’m honestly quite curious as to why it is most immigrants to Canada, of all classifications, are visible minorities. What I think is that 1. The crisis has obviously caught the developed world totally flatfooted, and 2. Harper’s administration is incompetent. This is the simplest and most logical explanation. Harper’s government has gone to great lengths to curry favour with immigrants and immigrant communities, and with no small amount of success. The entire basis of Harper’s electoral success has been expanding, not contracting, his available votes. Never ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence. The Harper government’s immigration strategy has been poorly executed in almost every respect; it’s not just refugee settlement. It takes a lot to fail to meet your own immigration targets when there’s more than ample supply. Incidentally, I’ll believe the promises of Tom Mulcair and Justin Trudeau when I see them fulfilled. What the Canadian government did for the “boat people” was remarkable but I don’t think either of those men are terribly remarkable, and I certainly don’t think either has the moral courage of Pierre Trudeau or Joe Clark. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longest-election-campaign-in-modern-canada-thread/726807.md?page=10)