# The longevity of Federer, Serena, Nadal and Djokovic **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 13, 2019, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014 "2019-07-13T13:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/21 "2019-07-15T18:09:49Z")
So, rather like Karl Malone or Charles Barkley — the misfortune of one’s career coinciding with the GOAT (in this case, three of ‘em). Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/22 "2019-07-15T22:24:06Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > … but also one of those three happens to be the absolute best-ever clay-court player, so there’s no chance for a clay-court specialist to sneak in a few wins in France and elsewhere? You mean, no one else is better then 95-2 at the French Open, with 12 titles?😃 You have say, no one in sports has dominated anything more than Nadal has the French Open. Simply ridiculous! ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/23 "2019-07-16T03:59:53Z")
Serena, Rafa and Djoker. Juicing. Federer is just fit as hell. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/24 "2019-07-16T07:41:57Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Serena, Rafa and Djoker. Juicing. > Federer is just fit as hell. Why aren’t the rest of tennis players juicing, though? In the whole world, only three players have managed to find the secret of undetectable PED’s? Are all the other tennis players too ethical to use them? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/25 "2019-07-16T11:04:09Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Serena, Rafa and Djoker. Juicing. > Federer is just fit as hell. I’m not convinced by the first three, the fact that Federer is a physical freak is clearly true to a certain extent but it seems to be a perfect storm of physical perfection, resistance to injury plus a playing style that puts his body through less trauma. I was amazed on Sunday. Federer is my favourite sportsman of all time but I thought going to 5 was unlikely. The fact that he did it and was arguably the better player on the day was amazing. If he can still pull out a 5 set, 5 hour marathon against another all-time great at the age of nearly 38 then there is no point retiring. He plays like that and he can still win majors (and entertain us all royally at the same time) Novak says that he hopes to emulate what Roger is doing but I think he, Rafa and Andy Murray are all far more susceptible to injury and are entering the zone where they may be struck down at the drop of a hat (or drop- shot?) This is a freakish time. 3 players that are arguably the best 3 ever. All resilient enough to be active for over a decade. The best of the rest has been Andy Murray by a country mile, someone with the skills and consistency good enough for a double digit major record in any other 15 year period. These are the only four people to have held the No 1. status since Feb 2nd 2004. That is an almost sarcastic degree of dominance. The chasing group will step up, they always do but we are unlikely to see anything like this ever again. The others aren’t bad, this top group are simply that good. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/26 "2019-07-16T11:56:58Z")
I agree with you on Novak/Rafa/Andy being more prone to injury (indeed all have already shown this is the case, and it’s likely to get worse for them as time goes on). Which is why I was amazed to read in this morning’s _Metro_ that the odds on Federer finishing his career with more grand slams than Rafa and Novak (by the time their careers are over) are apparently 8/1. With Novak and Rafa at something like 2/1 and 6/4 respectively. 8/1 looks incredible value to me - I mean yes, the other two are great, but they are not invincible and their careers could end/fall away literally any time from now. Nadal won’t be favourite to win any Slam except the French now, his best hope is to wrap that up for 2 more years (by no means guaranteed) and sneak another one in somewhere else while hoping Roger doesn’t manage that also. Novak is clearly looking the strongest of the three at the moment but needs 5 to overhaul Roger’s current total, that’s a lot. I suspect the ‘catch’ is that all bets are retained in the event of a tie. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/27 "2019-07-16T12:24:58Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > Why aren’t the rest of tennis players juicing, though? > In the whole world, only three players have managed to find the secret of undetectable PED’s? Are all the other tennis players too ethical to use them? They are. Several have been caught. Cilic. Sharapova. The ATP & WTA(much like cycling with Armstrong) is turning a blind eye. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I’m not convinced by the first three, the fact that Federer is a physical freak is clearly true to a certain extent but it seems to be a perfect storm of physical perfection, resistance to injury plus a playing style that puts his body through less trauma. > > I was amazed on Sunday. Federer is my favourite sportsman of all time but I thought going to 5 was unlikely. The fact that he did it and was arguably the better player on the day was amazing. If he can still pull out a 5 set, 5 hour marathon against another all-time great at the age of nearly 38 then there is no point retiring. He plays like that and he can still win majors (and entertain us all royally at the same time) > Novak says that he hopes to emulate what Roger is doing but I think he, Rafa and Andy Murray are all far more susceptible to injury and are entering the zone where they may be struck down at the drop of a hat (or drop- shot?) > > This is a freakish time. 3 players that are arguably the best 3 ever. All resilient enough to be active for over a decade. > The best of the rest has been Andy Murray by a country mile, someone with the skills and consistency good enough for a double digit major record in any other 15 year period. These are the only four people to have held the No 1. status since Feb 2nd 2004. That is an almost sarcastic degree of dominance. > > The chasing group will step up, they always do but we are unlikely to see anything like this ever again. The others aren’t bad, this top group are simply that good. Come on. I would not be surprised if Federer is \*\*also \*\* doping, but at least his style and physique match his age. Nadal: Went from a scrawny kid to a muscle bound Adonis. Has long layoffs and comes back stronger. And Spanish sports has enough institutional doping to make Russia blush. Serena: yeah, we _know_ she is doping. We have her test reports. Leaked by wiki leaks. Where she had multiple failed tests. Condoned by doctors notes. (Called “Therapeutic Use Exemptions” or TUE). Including several which were post dated. And issued in violation of rules. Djokovic. A guy who used to have trouble with stamina, now has no problem multiple 5 set 5 hour matches. He says it’s because he gave up gluten. From easily tired to a fucking Duracell. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/28 "2019-07-16T15:16:58Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > I agree with you on Novak/Rafa/Andy being more prone to injury (indeed all have already shown this is the case, and it’s likely to get worse for them as time goes on). Which is why I was amazed to read in this morning’s _Metro_ that the odds on Federer finishing his career with more grand slams than Rafa and Novak (by the time their careers are over) are apparently 8/1. With Novak and Rafa at something like 2/1 and 6/4 respectively. 8/1 looks incredible value to me - I mean yes, the other two are great, but they are not invincible and their careers could end/fall away literally any time from now. Nadal won’t be favourite to win any Slam except the French now, his best hope is to wrap that up for 2 more years (by no means guaranteed) and sneak another one in somewhere else while hoping Roger doesn’t manage that also. Novak is clearly looking the strongest of the three at the moment but needs 5 to overhaul Roger’s current total, that’s a lot. I suspect the ‘catch’ is that all bets are retained in the event of a tie. Agree 100% on your assessment of Nadal. If Novak plays until Rogers’ current 38, that’s @24 more slams, and currently needs five to tie Roger, who more than likely is going to get at least a couple more at this rate, so I think it comes down to Novak or Roger. And if in two years say Nadal and Roger are both done, and Novak is still at his peak, and the competition remains as weak as it is now, I could see him overtaking Roger, but it would be close. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/29 "2019-07-17T03:37:31Z")
Part of it is that their youth and then later years corresponded with a shift in tennis from a young man’s game to a relatively older man’s game - you don’t see teenagers winning grand slams or even getting close, when in the 80s and even 90s there were a ton of teenage champions. The last teenager to win a major was Rafa and I don’t think there is one who’s even close at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/30 "2019-07-17T13:47:11Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > I was amazed to read in this morning’s _Metro_ that the odds on Federer finishing his career with more grand slams than Rafa and Novak (by the time their careers are over) are apparently 8/1. With Novak and Rafa at something like 2/1 and 6/4 respectively. I’ll be incredibly surprised if Novak does not eventually surpass Federer in major titles. Yeah, I’d give Nadal maybe two more FO titles. > [@AK84](#): > > Nadal: Went from a scrawny kid to a muscle bound Adonis. Has long layoffs and comes back stronger. And Spanish sports has enough institutional doping to make Russia blush. Yep, I always wondered about the _waaay_-more-defined-than-usual muscalture of Nadal, Ferrer and Verdasco (not quite as sure about Lopez, Almagro, and Bautista Agut). ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/31 "2019-07-17T17:18:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think part of the explanation, at least for the lack of American competition, is that the best male American athletes are generally funneled into basketball, football, and a few other sports. Imagine if LeBron James had grown up playing tennis – with his height and athleticism, he could be utterly dominant. Drew Brees beat Andy Roddick as a kid – if he had stuck with tennis instead of football, he might also be an all time great. And many more. But that was no less true before. American men have always been largely funnelled into baseball, football, and basketball. I am skeptical of the notion that there is a lack of competition, absent a more convincing explanation of why that is; sports are zero sum and you can’t say it’s because other guys lose when it may be because these people win. I am more inclined to think it’s 1. Random chance, and 2. Sports medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/32 "2019-07-17T17:30:54Z")
The sports medicine argument is supported by folks like Tom Brady, who despite being my age (seriously, I’m only a month older than him) is still one of the best, if not the best QB in the NFL. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/33 "2019-07-17T21:12:03Z")
Um, the OP’s over-generalizing. I’m going to say this is nothing more than confirmation bias. Nadal: 33 years old Djokovic: 32 years old Federer: 37 years old Serena: 37 years old Both Nadal and Djokovic just had birthdays, both Federer and Serena turn 38 before the Fall. These 4 people are not similar, they are clearly of different age groups. Historically the elite men’s players have seen a steep drop off after the age of 33. If both Nadal and Djokovic continue winning over the next 3-4 years they will certainly be getting into rare company, but that hasn’t happened yet. Sampras, Agassi, Ashe, Connors and Laver all were winning Grand Slams regularly right up until the end of their runs, none of those final titles were really outliers. If they both stop winning majors this year or next, they’ll be perfectly in line with the historical norm for top flight players. Federer is without question an outlier, but he’s just that, a single outlier. We can’t infer a trend from that. Serena is the same age as Navratilova was when she notched her last title. That’s great company, but I think it’s probably likely that Serena’s closing in on her final days here. If she doesn’t continue to win over the next 3 or 4 years, she’ll be an outlier but not an unprecedented one. Importantly, there is no trend here to point at. Just one great player. Now, perhaps it’s odd that both Federer and Serena are setting new longevity marks at the same time, but I think it’s most likely that we can chalk that up to random chance. On balance players’ fitness is better as is the sports/medical science, so ages are edging up, but it’s not some sea change. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/34 "2019-07-17T21:40:35Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > But that was no less true before. American men have always been largely funnelled into baseball, football, and basketball. > > I am skeptical of the notion that there is a lack of competition, absent a more convincing explanation of why that is; sports are zero sum and you can’t say it’s because other guys lose when it may be because these people win. > > I am more inclined to think it’s > > 1. Random chance, and > > 2. Sports medicine. I think tennis was closer to those other sports in (American) popularity, prestige and money in past decades than today. No cite handy, so I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2019, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/35 "2019-07-18T07:36:21Z")
I think both Djokovic and Federer’s physique and style of play have assisted in their longevity. They both are lean and move like cats on the court. Serena and Nadal are the German Shepherds. They are stockier, muscular and possess unabashed ambition. All of them put in unbelievable amount of time in physical fitness and improving their game. I refuse to believe anyone is doping, though I was fooled by Lance Armstrong, too. However, all are routinely tested, including surprise tests. The fact that they banned Sharapova (albeit for a lesser time than perhaps she deserved) shows that the WTA is not shying away from testing, even at the cost of viewers. I believe Sharapova was the 2nd most popular player behind Serena when she was banned. Personally, I think that once these legacy players have retired, tennis attendance will drop significantly. I’ve held series tickets to our local Masters 1000 event for 25+ years, however I already have plans to drop them once Nadal retires. I’m a tennis fan, but I’m not plunking down $3000 to watch Kevin Anderson take on Tsisipas. No way, no how. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2019, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/36 "2019-07-18T14:08:21Z")
Also, cant wait for Federer to retire and then go undefeated for ten years on the Invessco legends tour (sic), playing against Chang, Courier, Blake, Fish and McEnroe! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/37 "2019-07-19T01:30:06Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I am skeptical of the notion that there is a lack of competition, absent a more convincing explanation of why that is; sports are zero sum and you can’t say it’s because other guys lose when it may be because these people win. Looking back, consider Andy Roddick: he doesn’t get a to of respect, but he was ranked #1 in the world as the US Open champ in ‘04 — the year he knifed through everyone else he faced at Wimbledon until going up against Federer in the final. And the next year, he beat everyone he faced at Wimbledon right up until he again went up against Federer in the final. And the day came when he again beat everyone he faced at Wimbledon and then went up against Federer in the final. Just imagine being that guy: you try to get another win at the US Open, and you drop everyone in your path until you face Federer in _that_ final. And you try your luck at the Australian Open, and successfully take on all comers until you face Federer in the _semifinal,_ after which he of course wins the final; and there’s a point where you face Federer at a _Wimbledon_ semifinal, after which he of course wins the final; and so on. I mean, yeah, okay, you’re no Federer; but imagine that _that’s_ the worst thing folks can say about you and your 150+ mph serve… ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/38 "2019-07-19T14:13:22Z")
It is interesting to think how many slams Roddick would have if he started his career today instead of when he did. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/39 "2019-07-19T17:28:38Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > It is interesting to think how many slams Roddick would have if he started his career today instead of when he did. We can play that game all day. Not to diminish Federer’s talent, but his impressive record was aided by the fact that the first 5 years of his career, he didn’t have to face someone like Djokovic or Nadal. Andy Roddick was his biggest competitor for the first phase of his career. And while Roddick had an impressive serve, he wasn’t in the same class as Nole or Rafa. Andre Agassi was in the twilight of his career and Sampras retired in 2002. So Federer definitely lucked out because he the quality of his competition was lacking. And then Rafa came along, and the rest is history. And while Nadal entered the race with Federer in the line-up, poor Djokovic had to face either Nadal or Federer, which makes his record even more impressive than either Nadal or Federer. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014/40 "2019-07-19T17:48:56Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > I refuse to believe anyone is doping, though I was fooled by Lance Armstrong, too. However, all are routinely tested, including surprise tests. The fact that they banned Sharapova (albeit for a lesser time than perhaps she deserved) shows that the WTA is not shying away from testing, even at the cost of viewers. I believe Sharapova was the 2nd most popular player behind Serena when she was banned. :rolleyes: Serena’s positive tests have been leaked…and they were approved with multiple post dated TUE. Sharapova was caught chiefly cause she was Russian. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-longevity-of-federer-serena-nadal-and-djokovic/837014.md?page=3)