# The Looming Dog Shortage **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 19, 2018, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187 "2018-10-19T03:35:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/41 "2018-10-19T23:25:59Z")
I can believe the OP; people here are importing dogs from overseas now for adoption. > [@StusBlues](#): > > The premise of the article is silly. Availability of dogs is a function of supply and demand This is true, but a possible outcome is that people of limited means will not be able to afford dogs. If puppy mills are being cracked down upon, reputable breeders will dominate the market, and they already charge a pretty hefty sum. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/42 "2018-10-20T03:26:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > This is true, but a possible outcome is that people of limited means will not be able to afford dogs. Boy dog + Girl dog = Extra Dogs If there’s ever some actual dog shortage, people will just be less inclined to spay or neuter their dogs since the threat of homeless feral dogs wandering the streets isn’t there. We’re not talking about pandas here; just let the dogs be dogs and you’ll have all the extra dogs you could want. I suppose people of limited means maybe won’t get purebred whatevers, but that’s already largely the case unless their limited means still allows for hundreds or thousands of dollars in dog purchasing funds. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/43 "2018-10-20T04:14:06Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Except that if you did your research you’d know that Yorkies as a breed are notoriously hard to train and hard to housebreak (like many toy breeds), so don’t blame the breeder for producing a typical Yorkie. They did their job just fine. Oh, I totally agree with you. I have had many dogs. Pure bred and mutt. I have never had one as dumb as this dog though. I don’t blame the breeder at all. I got what I paid for. A pet quality Yorkie. I love her with her disability, anyway. As I said, the buyer beware. Do your homework before you buy or adopt. And the pitbull thing, it is out of control how many pitts are on the street and in shelters. I don’t think I understand why. They are obviously not for everyone. I have had terriers and a small one is a challenge. I can’t imagine a powerful one. I do have sympathy for them. At our shelter, some are sweet, some not so much. They never get a forever home. It’s just sad, really. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/44 "2018-10-20T04:51:35Z")
There definitely aren’t a lot of locally born dogs or cats in shelters in the upper northeast. A great many dogs and cats you can get in NH and ME are shipped up here from Florida or Arkansas for a $450 fee for dogs and $200 for cats. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/45 "2018-10-20T04:55:18Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I think the pound is full every time I visit. > [@Telemark](#): > > Exactly, there are plenty of dogs available for adoption. Not here. I’ve occasionally browsed the shelter listings and there tend to be very few dogs and they go quickly. The shelters seem to be overflowing with cats, though. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/46 "2018-10-20T06:25:38Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > That’s not true here in South Arkansas. Occasionally the shelter I visit has taken truck loads of dogs to the north. I assume the shelters there are lacking pups and are willing to take some from here. That’s a good thing. IMO. Yep, that’s where Vaya came from, as part of an entire litter, though there was a significant scare when one of the dogs on the truck tested positive for parvo. We’re pretty good at homing dogs around here, insomuch as many of the shelters outside of the Twin Cities are almost entirely foster-driven. That said, shelters are still running at 50%+ capacity. Knowing it would be lower if limited to only local dogs makes my soul smile. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/47 "2018-10-20T06:29:46Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I can believe the OP; people here are importing dogs from overseas now for adoption. > This is true, but a possible outcome is that people of limited means will not be able to afford dogs. If puppy mills are being cracked down upon, reputable breeders will dominate the market, and they already charge a pretty hefty sum. There are plenty of mutts available, and I can’t imagine a situation where that would change. Puppy mills were producing purebreds too fast to catch any health issues, in inhumane conditions. I don’t see a downside to reputable breeders for purebreds - there’s a standard for a reason, and ANY breeder worth a damn cares for that standard and the long-term health and safety of their puppies far more than the money they make. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/48 "2018-10-20T13:33:07Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > There are plenty of mutts available, and I can’t imagine a situation where that would change. . Around here, compulsory registration costs are much higher, older dogs are always provided spayed/desexed, and very young puppies may be supplied with ‘free’ (cost included) desexing as part of the price. Purebreeds are provided in two classes: breeding (high price), and non-breeding (the others). ---
**Author:** ![Textual\_Innuendo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@Textual\_Innuendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Textual_Innuendo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/49 "2018-10-20T13:51:34Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > This is true, but a possible outcome is that people of limited means will not be able to afford dogs. This is a good thing - I’m totally behind **Sage Rat’s** analysis. A lot of people shouldn’t have dogs that do. Taking care of dogs right costs money, up to and including being able to come up with hundreds to thousands of dollars for unexpected vet visits, and vet prices just keep going up. People of limited means _shouldn’t_ be getting dogs, if dog welfare is part of the equation we’re considering. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/50 "2018-10-20T14:07:43Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Plenty of dogs in the shelters in the Sacramento area. We got 2 of them a couple years ago. > > Lots of pit bulls. Beautiful animals. Give one a chance! Ours just turned seven. First (and so far only) dog I ever had. Got him when he was 10 months old from the pound. $65 vaccinations, neutering, chip included. Love him to death. Around here, the pounds are full, but, like in other places, they are predominantly pits and pit mixes. I volunteered at the city pound for about a year, and I would say it’s 85% breeds identified as that. On the adoption floor, they would usually sit for one to three months before getting adopted/fostered/rescued by a group. The lapdogs would last less than a week before getting snapped up. The euthanasia rates have gone down tremendously because of fostering groups. Twenty years ago, kill rates were about 90% at the shelter–now they’re down to about 10%. But, yeah, no lack of dogs around here. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/51 "2018-10-20T14:13:34Z")
I can believe there’s substantial competition for “hot” breeds or even for “hot” mixes. Still, our local shelter has an abundant supply of dogs (mostly pits or pit mixes). [Hard to understand](http://nypost.com/2018/09/05/woman-mauled-to-death-by-pit-bull-she-just-adopted/) why anyone would be slow to adopt one. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/52 "2018-10-20T15:01:14Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > The premise of the article is silly. Availability of dogs is a function of supply and demand. If the demand is there, the dogs will be there. QED. Most media articles about ‘shortages’ share the same basic flaw. Unless there’s really comprehensive government action limiting _price_, there’s no such thing as a shortage. In some cases of housing ‘shortages’ that’s partly true (in NY for example you have significant, though not all encompassing, rent price controls plus other supply restriction). But it’s fairly unusual. And not the case with dogs. Even to the extent increased awareness and enforcement puts pressure on low rent dog breeders (which I’m not sure is even that true), with no govt control of the price of dogs, the price would just go up. Certain people not being able to afford what they want might or might not be anyone else’s problem, depending case by case. But it’s not a ‘shortage’. Anyway where I live there is no ‘shortage’ of very cheap dogs. Not everyone I guess wants to pay $165 (IIRC for the one my daughter recently adopted) at the shelter, but not a lot of people really want a dog and won’t pay that much, and a lot of people can get them literally free by short circuiting the shelter process and just getting unwanted dogs directly (which might be more risky and I am not recommending it, but possible). Once you further narrow it to ‘I want a particular breed category for very cheap or else there’s a shortage’ then it’s downright ridiculous. And so called ‘pit bulls’ are really just ‘dogs’. I personally prefer them to any other type of dog as a matter of taste, and experience with a particular very exceptional dog, compared to any dog. Or IOW dogs are individuals. If you want a nice dog just go to a good shelter, meet a bunch of nice dogs, and take the one you like best (where we live anyway). Yeah 90%+ it will be a ‘pit bull’, but the only real life problem with that is if there’s enough ignorance and stupidity in your local area for that to be a legal, rental etc problem. Here it’s really not. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/53 "2018-10-20T15:11:25Z")
Its been a problem in Minnesota for years. We import many of our rescue dogs from places like Arkansas. My current rescue came from Missouri. It isn’t that there aren’t any puppies, its just that there are far fewer “oops” litters here - most litters are the result of intentional (and with puppy mill laws - controlled) breeding. And there are always surrendered older dogs as well. That also means even a rescue dog will set you back a few hundred dollars. And yes, that means that people of limited means are going to have a harder time finding dogs…but a few hundred dollars is a drop in the bucket compared to your first real vet bill. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/54 "2018-10-20T22:42:33Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > It’s not really a problem because very few people actually NEED a dog and there are way more than enough for those that do. A dog is a luxury item. Saying that there isn’t enough water in Phoenix, that’s a problem. One might argue with equal validity that its a luxury to have a city of 1.6 million in such a dry region. It’s much drier than even coastal southern California, and is dependent on fewer water sources. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/55 "2018-10-20T23:17:57Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > It’s not really a problem because very few people actually NEED a dog and there are way more than enough for those that do. A dog is a luxury item. Saying that there isn’t enough water in Phoenix, that’s a problem. Saying that there aren’t enough Teslas to go around is not, it’s an inconvenience for a few people. So, saying that there aren’t enough dogs is an inconvenience, not a problem. It’s one that will resolve itself. If there’s a scarcity, then prices will rise and more people will breed dogs. You’ll end up paying more for Spot, but if the price is high enough, you’ll simply forego getting Spot and get a cat instead or go without a pet. Problem solved. This. And if people have to pay something for dogs, they are less likely to abandon them or fail to care for them. > [@filmore](#): > > I’m not sure where this dog shortage is. Certainly not in my area… In the northeast. We have a shortage of mutts. You can buy a purebred for a couple grand, but if you want a mutt, especially a puppy mutt or a young adult without known behavioral problems, you may have to import it yourself from out-of-state. You will at best have to hover around the shelters (which import dogs from Puerto Rico, the Carolinas, and other regions with more dogs) and snap up the first one you see. My sister adopts older dogs who have been abused. She spends a lot on dog trainers, and her dogs are older and she loses them (from old age) all the time. My brother got a shelter dog imported from the South Carolina and contracted with a guy who imports dogs for his other dog. His were young adults when he got them. I can’t think of anyone local who got a mutt puppy in the last two decades. > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > There are plenty of mutts available, and I can’t imagine a situation where that would change… If everyone spays and neuters, except the ones who intentionally breed, you don’t get a lot of mutts. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/56 "2018-10-21T03:53:57Z")
“Pit bulls”–mostly Staffordshire variants and mutts of same–are legion. They are good dogs unless not trained or badly trained. In the 30s the AKC considered delisting Staffies because they were considered too sissified (I’m paraphrasing). They were also called “nanny dogs” because they are so good with kids (my experience). Don’t confuse bad dogs with bad owners. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/57 "2018-10-21T14:16:14Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > It is no suprise that there is a dwindling supply of looming dogs, given how few people have a loom any more. 😃 Apparently you and I are the only Dopers left who appreciate good jokes. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/58 "2018-10-21T17:12:57Z")
My Humane Society friends talk about how they still have to schlep dogs all over the region to get them to shelters with openings, so there doesn’t appear to be a supply problem. > [@](#): > > If everyone spays and neuters Everyone does not spay and neuter. Anecdotal cite: My neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/59 "2018-10-21T17:27:08Z")
> [@susan](#): > > My Humane Society friends talk about how they still have to schlep dogs all over the region to get them to shelters with openings, so there doesn’t appear to be a supply problem. > > Everyone does not spay and neuter. Anecdotal cite: My neighborhood. Yes, but in the regions where there is a “dog shortage” people do spay and neuter - especially mutts. You cannot adopt a dog from a rescue around here without it already being fixed - and if they aren’t ready, your contract states you will fix the dog (Female dogs aren’t released unless they are spayed, because that can happen pretty early). If you adopt a purebred from a breeder, the breeder will contract you to spay or neuter any dogs that are meant for family pets - not for show or breeding - and the breeder is likely going to determine if your dog either makes or gets the cut. Add in leash laws (I almost never see dogs off their leashes around here unless they’ve gotten lost - in which case someone catches it and puts it in their garage or on a leash until an owner is identified or animal control is called- dogs don’t roam) and the accidental puppy problem dwindles to very small numbers. Check out Craigslist for people giving away puppies in the Northeast or Upper Midwest - its a different situation than it is the the South. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187/60 "2018-10-21T17:35:59Z")
In farming communities like mine, cats and dogs appear to anyone with a barn. The farmer doesn’t “breed” them, they just happen, somewhat like spontaneous generation. Since more cats means less mice, and more dogs means a companion to ride the tractor or pickup with you, there is little attempt to reduce the population. But without neutering, the population tends to blossom, so you just take a box of tiny critters down to the creek and…problem solved. Not my idea of a good solution, but I haven’t been able to convince any farmers to change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-dog-shortage/823187.md?page=4)