# The looming physician shortage **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 31, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-physician-shortage/787786 "2017-05-31T18:30:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-physician-shortage/787786/61 "2017-06-05T01:05:53Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > It’s never easy for a doctor to migrate, and it’s become even more difficult, but if retirement is an option, perhaps migration to Aus would be an alternative? Granted, the info is a little dated but: Australian physicians immigrated and practicing in the US: 1144 US physicians immigrated and practicing in Australia: 73 Considering relative total # of physicians (15 times more in the US) and the relative ease of US to AU move for a physician compared to the reverse - that is a pretty big difference. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-physician-shortage/787786/62 "2017-06-05T01:23:57Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Granted, the info is a little dated but: > > Australian physicians immigrated and practicing in the US: 1144 > US physicians immigrated and practicing in Australia: 73 > > Considering relative total # of physicians (15 times more in the US) and the relative ease of US to AU move for a physician compared to the reverse - that is a pretty big difference. Oh I forgot to give the cite: [http://ftp.iza.org/dp6517.pdf](http://ftp.iza.org/dp6517.pdf) Table 2. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-physician-shortage/787786/63 "2017-06-05T01:49:13Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Granted, the info is a little dated but: > > Australian physicians immigrated and practicing in the US: 1144 > US physicians immigrated and practicing in Australia: 73 > > Considering relative total # of physicians (15 times more in the US) and the relative ease of US to AU move for a physician compared to the reverse - that is a pretty big difference. Just to make sure I understand your point: you’re saying that if the emigration ratios don’t roughly equal the physician ratios, that’s solid evidence against the medical system? i.e. in a neutral medical system world there would be 15 times as many doctors moving to Australia as the reverse. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-physician-shortage/787786/64 "2017-06-05T01:50:07Z")
I feel I should point out that while the OP has made a whole series of demonstrably false claims about the alleged evils of single-payer, [he seems unwilling to address their debunking](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20248370&postcount=49). And BTW, one more reason for the physician shortage can be found in [this fascinating article](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/03/business/economy/high-end-medical-care.html?_r=2) I was just reading in the _New York Times_, which was sent to me by a relative on the occasion of losing his long-time family doctor. Sick and tired of the pressures, constraints, and hassles of conventional medical practice under the present system, many of the best doctors are going into boutique medical practices, where they make the same income on one-quarter the patient load, and provide red-carpet medical services for the few who can afford the extravagant costs. Welcome to health care as pure commerce and unbridled capitalism, determined by the almighty and unregulated hand of the free market. In other systems any such similar practice is either highly regulated (e.g.- Germany) or outright illegal (e.g.- Canada). ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-physician-shortage/787786/65 "2017-06-05T02:34:43Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Just to make sure I understand your point: you’re saying that if the emigration ratios don’t roughly equal the physician ratios, that’s solid evidence against the medical system? i.e. in a neutral medical system world there would be 15 times as many doctors moving to Australia as the reverse. There are other factors, too, obviously. But the roughly (taking population into account) 235:1 discrepancy is too glaring. People may say this and that on surveys, grumble and complain. But voting with your feet is much more convincing. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-physician-shortage/787786/66 "2017-06-05T09:16:30Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > There are other factors, too, obviously. But the roughly (taking population into account) 235:1 discrepancy is too glaring. People may say this and that on surveys, grumble and complain. But voting with your feet is much more convincing. Glaring compared to what though? What’s the immigration ratio for Australian:American bankers, pilots or oil executives? Yes there’s other factors - how much can be laid at the feet of the medical system at all? ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-physician-shortage/787786/67 "2017-06-05T23:16:27Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Just to make sure I understand your point: you’re saying that if the emigration ratios don’t roughly equal the physician ratios, that’s solid evidence against the medical system? i.e. in a neutral medical system world there would be 15 times as many doctors moving to Australia as the reverse. It is a significant and meaningful statistic. Aus doctors go to the USA and England for advanced training, research jobs, and to see the world. US doctors come to Aus because it’s a nice place to live and work. Aus doctors (with no debt), go the USA to be rich. USA doctors who have paid off their debts come to Aus for the lifestyle. I’m not surprised at the numbers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-looming-physician-shortage/787786.md?page=3)