# The Lord & Cameron **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 18, 2014, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397 "2014-04-18T06:33:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/61 "2014-04-19T20:20:18Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > the role that faith can play in helping people to have a moral code.") People also fail to grasp the role that playing music can play in helping people to have a moral code. I understand Cameron just fine. He isn’t a very deep thinker, after all. It’s just that the “It can be good for you” argument is frequently a prelude to things which are _not_ good for anyone except people like Cameron. Think Mary Whitehouse. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/62 "2014-04-19T21:18:03Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] I understand Cameron just fine. He isn’t a very deep thinker, after all. It’s just that the “It can be good for you” argument is frequently a prelude to things which are _not_ good for anyone except people like Cameron. Think Mary Whitehouse. [/QUOTE] I read that as “Amy Whitehouse” at first. I was a bit confused. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/63 "2014-04-19T22:20:11Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I read that as “Amy Whitehouse” at first. I was a bit confused. Apparently she was quite popular, she got a nice little serenade from Mr. Waters _Hey you, Whitehouse, Ha ha charade you are. You house proud town mouse, Ha ha charade you are You’re trying to keep our feelings off the street. You’re nearly a real treat, All tight lips and cold feet And do you feel abused? You got to stem the evil tide, And keep it all on the inside. Mary you’re nearly a treat, Mary you’re nearly a treat But you’re really a cry._ ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/64 "2014-04-20T21:19:40Z")
Mary Whitehouse was a Moral Majority-type campaigner against porn, bad language, etc., especially in the media. She died some years ago, and had ceased to be active for some years before that. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/65 "2014-04-20T22:28:20Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > Mary Whitehouse was a Moral Majority-type campaigner against porn, bad language, etc., especially in the media. She died some years ago, and had ceased to be active for some years before that. …And had ceased to be relevant a while before that. ---
**Author:** ![Lucky\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Lucky\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucky_Mike)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/66 "2014-04-20T23:55:23Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > They are not bad, dumb, etc. because they believe differently. They are dumb because they believe, to the point of excluding evidence and logic to the contrary, in superstitions. > > And, I have no doubt that many adhere to a very fine moral and ethical code. But that is not the core belief of their religion. At least I don’t believe it is. The core is their belief in a man who is also God and the son of God and His (THEIR) assorted miracles, including his rise from the dead. Having _those_ beliefs are what I think is foolish. And, foolish are those who hold them. Not bad, immoral, or evil (not usually). > > ETA: For too long, we have given religion a pass when it comes to silliness, ignorance, etc. It’s time we called it/them for what they are . . . if for no other reason than to start to lessen the undue influence religion exerts on our society (and on me and other non-believers as free individuals who should be able to do as we wish so long as it involves inflicting no harm on others, e.g. SSM, abortion, etc.). The poster you are responding to is speaking about looking at people as they act, not as they believe spiritually, or non-spiritually if they so choose. He is willing to accept their beliefs despite disagreement because their actions do not cause harm. When their actions cause harm, i.e. westboro, he would likely oppose them (sorry if I am incorrect in my conclusion). He finds no purpose or meaning in ridicule of another person for personal spiritual/non-spiritual beliefs and thinks people should be treated based upon their actions towards others. Just like an atheist should not be attacked or persecuted for their perspective unless they act in harm to others, he believes the same thing about religious individuals. Think about your position a little bit more, because the rhetoric you espouse is similar to the parody Southpark did. Somehow I suspect people with your feelings might be fighting for the otters breaking clams on their tummies because someone did not accept their vision of how people should feel and believe in their hearts. Oh, and for the record, non-deist here, but still some sense of spirituality about humanity and life in general. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/67 "2014-04-21T13:24:59Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Some people believe in various flavors of religion. Some people don’t. They should all shut the fuck up about it. Perhaps you should tell David Cameron that. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/68 "2014-04-21T17:02:12Z")
> [@For You](#): > > So, yeah, pray all you want, and drink some nice blood this weekend, like a proper ghoul. But keep it in your church, we do not need your goddam “saviour” screwing up what he has no business fucking with. Unfortunate perhaps, depending on your point of view, but he doesn’t have to keep it in his church as the UK is officially a Christian nation and the C of E is established by law. Nativity scenes and signs saying Merry Christmas can be set up in Government buildings with impunity, for instance, and no court will order them removed as in the US. Personally I couldn’t give a shit, being an atheist, but that’s the state of play here. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/69 "2014-04-22T14:38:36Z")
Ha ha ha, Jesus is a zombie… No he isn’t, you ill-informed pisswits! He kept his sense of self and magical powers - that there is most likely a Lich. Anyway… Cameron’s just trying to get the religious to do his dirty work for him _viz._ caring for the poor. That’s the whole point of his Big Society idea - get charity to look after the country so he can siphon off all funding for public services into his cronies’ coffers. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/70 "2014-04-22T14:49:55Z")
> [@Double\_Foolscap](#): > > Ha ha ha, Jesus is a zombie… > > No he isn’t, you ill-informed pisswits! He kept his sense of self and magical powers - that there is most likely a Lich. Nope. He could eat human food and it was safe for people to touch him - that’s no lich that I wot of. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/71 "2014-04-22T14:56:05Z")
Lo, I have been out-nerded. Necropolitan, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/72 "2014-04-22T15:47:19Z")
> [@Double\_Foolscap](#): > > Cameron’s just trying to get the religious to do his dirty work for him _viz._ caring for the poor. That’s the whole point of his Big Society idea - get charity to look after the country so he can siphon off all funding for public services into his cronies’ coffers. I have not really been following the UK situation, is he like Maggie but without the testicles? ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/73 "2014-04-22T15:52:41Z")
> [@For You](#): > > I have not really been following the UK situation, is he like Maggie but without the testicles? I might not be the most nuanced of political commentators, but totes. He sold off the Royal Mail in a manner which meant that the rich bastards who bought shares could make a massive short-term profit, and has been dicking about with the welfare state. All we need is a retreating battleship to fire on. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/74 "2014-04-22T18:02:47Z")
> [@Double\_Foolscap](#): > > Lo, I have been out-nerded. > > Necropolitan, maybe? Like the ice cream? eta: also, I vote Revenant with a Deva past life racial feature ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/75 "2014-04-22T19:13:57Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I’m a foundation(church-appointed) governor at a local church-controlled primary school in the UK - I’m actively involved in the ‘interference’ of the church in education. Slightly tangential, but the greatest insult to equality in the UK is the fact that some…STATE FUNDED…schools are ALLOWED to discriminate admissions based on the faith of the child’s parents. Yes, you heard that correctly. For some state schools you stand a better chance of getting in if your parents are of a certain denomination. Imagine if any other state funded organisation were allowed to do that. “yeah, we’d like to treat your daughters leukaemia but we’re a Catholic hospital and the 20% protestant treatments we allow have already been used up. I believe there’s a methodist hospital in the next county that may have some of their quota left” It is an abomination and we should be ashamed of it. Does that rear it’s head in your school **Mangetout**? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/76 "2014-04-23T06:16:51Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Yes, you heard that correctly. For some state schools you stand a better chance of getting in if your parents are of a certain denomination. I have heard they exercise blatant discrimination at Hogwarts. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/77 "2014-04-23T07:24:27Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I have heard they exercise blatant discrimination at Hogwarts. As far as I know Hogwarts doesn’t take any state money, they have that whole goblin bank thing going on. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/78 "2014-04-23T10:07:31Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Officially there is not a separation of church and state, but religion is generally kept out of politics, and certainly rarely invoked so overtly. Indeed. [“We don’t do God”](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1429109/Campbell-interrupted-Blair-as-he-spoke-of-his-faith-We-dont-do-God.html). ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/79 "2014-04-23T10:13:25Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > Mary Whitehouse was a Moral Majority-type campaigner against porn, bad language, etc., especially in the media. She died some years ago, and had ceased to be active for some years before that. And was also the source of the name of an [at the time hilarious but on reflection hasn’t aged well comedy show](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mary_Whitehouse_Experience). It was, however, probably responsible for the rise of popularity of stand-up comedy in the 1990s (two of its members played sold out shows at Wembley Arena, something that was pretty unheard of at the time), something that continues to this day. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397/80 "2014-04-23T17:42:10Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Slightly tangential, but the greatest insult to equality in the UK is the fact that some…STATE FUNDED…schools are ALLOWED to discriminate admissions based on the faith of the child’s parents. > > Yes, you heard that correctly. For some state schools you stand a better chance of getting in if your parents are of a certain denomination. > > Imagine if any other state funded organisation were allowed to do that. > > “yeah, we’d like to treat your daughters leukaemia but we’re a Catholic hospital and the 20% protestant treatments we allow have already been used up. I believe there’s a methodist hospital in the next county that may have some of their quota left” > > It is an abomination and we should be ashamed of it. Does that rear it’s head in your school **Mangetout**? Yes. It only applies to oversubscription criteria though - not normal intake. I think your analogy mischaracterises it a little. Other discriminatory factors that apply in oversubscription include: whether the child is ‘looked after’, if the child or a family member has a serious medical condition, if they have a sibling already in the school, and if they are children of school staff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-lord-cameron/686397.md?page=5)